Spatt Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Looking for some advice from the more clued up amongst you. Anyone that does regular track days or hard driving and services the car regularly. are you burning oil / is it standard to burn oil / how much? I recently had my engine rebuilt due to an oil burning problem (blue smoke on throttle) the build was completed around 3 to 4 weeks ago and i think the engine is still using oil... I've been told "engines use oil, get over it" not by the garage but want to know what i'm talking about before i go and take it back I dont know what oil spec they have used i think its fully synth 5w30 standard stuff Hope ive not opened a can of worms with this thread just want some advice Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Nissan spec is 1000mi/L I think (or is it 1000km/L?), so anything over that is unacceptable. However, generally speaking on a DE or HR I'd be getting concerned if it was burning more that double that tbh. Some hi-spec engines can use a bit more oil (the Audi V10s are known for it), but most modern engines don't use anywhere near that. How much are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatt Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 I'm not 100 percent sure on usage, I'm going to drop it and measure the results to be accurate. I checked the dipstick and it was on full after the oil change and reads half way now after 1000 miles of driving. Some of that driving (nearly half) will have been hard full throttle nearly red line engine very hot Could be normal then? Just need to monitor it when driving hard? I can live with that if I know it's to be expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 They do seem fickle tbh, SMD`'s DE had done 100k when he sold it I think, wasn't using a drop and beleive me that had done some hard miles. Hope yours is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Half a litre over 500miles of mostly hard driving would seem reasonable enough to me, I think. I wouldn't worry too much right now, it's when it starts plummeting when you're pootling that you need to be concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 0.5lt seems alright to me for a DE but for a new build, no idea. Driving hard will use oil, as you are typically holding onto lower gears for longer, so yeah it'll use it no matter what. As to how much specifically, hard to know. Don't forget smoke and oil burning can be caused by valve stem seals that need replacing. Were they replaced ? Also if you do a lot of hard driving, think about having an oil cooler and an oil pan spacer since it's not much oil in the OE system. Did you run the engine in properly ? (I'm assuming they directed you to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1/2lt of oil every couple of tanks of juice.......its not an RX7/8 My old DE got tracked loads over the 4 years I owned it and I can't remember ever topping it up between services, which I admit were very regular but always a couple of thousand miles between and at least 2 track days. Rob has a very good point regarding running in, there are specific running in oils you must use to bed in the new piston rings etc, If they put 5w30 fully synthetic in straight away then this wouldn't have happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 ^ Everyone's cars are different. Mine gets through about 700ml/1000miles, combination of motorway mileage and A roads. I redline it every time I take it out, though haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Not that it's far off, but I thought the difference between L and H is 1.5l on a DE and 1.8l on a rev up? That would mean 750ml in 1000 miles, which is still within spec for the distance. I check mine every 500 miles and top up if needed. It's the only way to ensure you don't run low... which as you know all too well can lead to problems. Keep an eye over the next 500 and see if it still seems high over a "normal" driving period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) I am really surprised that so many are experiencing such high usage. Sorry this is slightly off topic here but I've done several road trips in my Zed's (De and HR) over the years, the latest ones being a 3000miles round trip that went to the south of France in June 16 and another 2000mile trip in September 16 to Germany Inc one full day lapping the 'Ring, during both trips I redlinned the car once or twice!! and I didn't even take any oil with me. Are people honestly saying it would've been expected and acceptable that I would've run out of oil during these trips over this distance? Please don't think I'm being difficult............I am just really surprised by this, especially after owning a Zed's since 2012 and never experiencing this at all. Maybe I have just been very lucky with my cars Edited April 18, 2017 by 350Butcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I'm with you 350butcher, I find it wierd that so many people say they use a lot. I have a revup (notorious for using oil according to this forum) but I checked it when I got it, and didn't have to add anything to it after a year of ownership (admittedly only 4k miles, but still...) when it went in for a service. According to the dipstick it was still within the limits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyG8nby Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I'm with you 350butcher, I find it wierd that so many people say they use a lot. I have a revup (notorious for using oil according to this forum) but I checked it when I got it, and didn't have to add anything to it after a year of ownership (admittedly only 4k miles, but still...) when it went in for a service. According to the dipstick it was still within the limits I'm the same I have a rev up and it's not used a drop in 8000 miles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Obviously it depends how the first owner or two used it (regarding engines that aren't rebuilt) and serviced it ! My DE drinks it up, compression test ok - but likely to be valve stem seals for me. As to how much, I' don't quite know as I got side-tracked part way through checking it weekly, so once I drop it again this weekend I'll keep an eye on it (not that it helps the OP). The point is, if it does use oil, how much is it actually using. If it doesn't use oil, great you get a gold star 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 newly built motor needs on synthetic oil (proper running oil is even better) engines need running in we prefer to do this on our in house dyno which allows us to control the running in period this will bed the rings in quickly this is the main thing for low oil usage. oil burning Zed motors isnt a valve stem issue every motor we have stripped have had the oil control ring worn out. The OP what was replaced when the motor was rebuilt? Zed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy1980 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I may be wrong, but wasn't this the rebuild that was considered cheap ? Is it possible a few corners have been cut or the running in wasn't done correctly ? Plus, 500 miles at redline out of 1000 miles covered :O So soon after a rebuild can't be doing it much good if im honest. Hope this is something silly like a small leak on the sump or filter, or you could be looking at another strip down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazMan Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 newly built motor needs on synthetic oil (proper running oil is even better) engines need running in we prefer to do this on our in house dyno which allows us to control the running in period this will bed the rings in quickly this is the main thing for low oil usage. oil burning Zed motors isnt a valve stem issue every motor we have stripped have had the oil control ring worn out. The OP what was replaced when the motor was rebuilt? Zed Hi Mark, Can you please briefly elaborate further the running-in procedure on the Dyno in order to bed in the rings…. How long does it take, what RPM`s and at what stage do you flush the running-in lube? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 This is Abbey Schedule; Pre lube the motor before start to ensure all the bearings have prior lubrication we use a pressurise oil system to pump the oil around. start the motor after initial build to check for leaks / bleed the cooling system. Onto the dyno , start up and run under light load to ensure Map is good enough to run some load , the run the motor under load say 3000 to 4000rpm. We check the Vacuum the motor is pulling when new the car will be run under different loads (no full throttle high loads) and keep checking the vacuum at idle , once you see the idle increase and settle down , you know the piston rings have bedded in. This can normally be done in 2 to 3 hours (40-60 miles) We don't believe cars need running in for a 1000 miles, modern machining leave a far better finish than engines built 30 years ago. bearings require very little running in maybe a couple of heat cycles Modern running in oil helps as well. We will drop this after 600/1000miles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazMan Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 This is Abbey Schedule; Pre lube the motor before start to ensure all the bearings have prior lubrication we use a pressurise oil system to pump the oil around. start the motor after initial build to check for leaks / bleed the cooling system. Onto the dyno , start up and run under light load to ensure Map is good enough to run some load , the run the motor under load say 3000 to 4000rpm. We check the Vacuum the motor is pulling when new the car will be run under different loads (no full throttle high loads) and keep checking the vacuum at idle , once you see the idle increase and settle down , you know the piston rings have bedded in. This can normally be done in 2 to 3 hours (40-60 miles) We don't believe cars need running in for a 1000 miles, modern machining leave a far better finish than engines built 30 years ago. bearings require very little running in maybe a couple of heat cycles Modern running in oil helps as well. We will drop this after 600/1000miles. Thanks for this detailed reply… Much appreciated, mate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 oil burning Zed motors isnt a valve stem issue every motor we have stripped have had the oil control ring worn out. When I rebuild my one, I'm changing them out regardless since they are cheap for up-rated ones or OEM. Seems stupid not to when going to that effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yes we always change the valve stem seal when we rebuild the VQ's but it isn't the issue that causes the oil usage. Don't waste you money just changing valve stem seals as this wont cure the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatt Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hi everyone, thanks for the comments, some constructive points being raised so to clarify on my rebuild the following was replaced... piston rings, all seals, gaskets, bearings, bores honed and a new timing chain kit inc guides etc... As for the running in, i was told to not labour the engine as this could be worse so he explained that i should use the revs to a point but full throttle should be avoided and dont let the revs come up high, i'm no fool so i extend mechanical sympathy when running the car in and ive just sank a ton of money into this. To clear it up the run in was approx 600 - 700 miles the car was returned to the garage after about a week. the driving was mainly a and b road stop start type of thing, using all the gears and changing revs, what i consider to be a nice potter around enjoying having my car back after the car was serviced i have covered another 1000 miles i would say maybe 300 of that was "harder" driving, getting closer to the limiter and holding onto gears letting the engine run down but nothing like track work or drag racing just using the engine more some full throttle acceleration for sure Since i wrote the op i have started to notice a drop in performance though i dont know if im imagining it.. the car seems to have less torque when pulling in third or 4th compared to before. Yes the rebuild was done on a budget by a local garage, i couldn't afford the 7K rebuild prices quoted to me by some of the pro traders There have been other issues with the engine starting, the engine seems to rotate too much on start up but ive been told this is cam or crank sensor issue, the garage will be sorting this while its in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Sounds like everything you had to do you did correctly. Do you know what oil was in the car for the running in though? May be hard to know now it's been changed but all that correct procedure is a bit of a waste if it was on fully sythetic oil as this will stop the small amount of wear required to bed in the piston rings in the honed block. Sadly this is why traders can afford to charge so much for this work! Hope your garage does sort it out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatt Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Sounds like everything you had to do you did correctly. Do you know what oil was in the car for the running in though? May be hard to know now it's been changed but all that correct procedure is a bit of a waste if it was on fully sythetic oil as this will stop the small amount of wear required to bed in the piston rings in the honed block. Sadly this is why traders can afford to charge so much for this work! Hope your garage does sort it out for you. I'll be asking them exactly this when i drop the car off later.... i certainly wasn't aware that particular oils have to be used for bedding in. As you can imagine i dont want to fall out with them over this, i want them to warrant the work. The fact that my exhausts look black means that its clearly burning it anyway so on that matter alone i'll be having a good chat to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Fall out with them or not, they've already warranted the work by carrying it out. If they decide to be unhelpful, simply take them to court over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatt Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 The garage have the car and have told me there may be a mixture issue which is why my exhausts are so black. I have my doubts about this but dont know enough about it Having done some more digging online ive found that the consumption of oil is looking more normal, i was under the impression following a rebuild it shouldn't burn but apparently its normal if your using more pressure on the loud pedal right now i'm having the crank sensor looked at, the oil sender is being replaced to fix the oil pressure gauge (thanks ZmanAlex) so we will see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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