coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 But then how do you set that criteria? Its certainly nothing to do with age. Its one of the delights of democracy that anyone can vote a party in but I agree we should not have had a referendum on the EU as too many people voted with their emotions with no clue what they were actually voting for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Sort of agree that informed voters are better voters, better than voting for labour/tory becuase I always have, or because my parents do. But I think cutting through the spin is difficult for those with little resolve, and peer pressure has an affect. Edited June 9, 2017 by Jay84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Do we know if the sitting government HAVE to put the Brexit deal to a vote? Like legally have to, rather than just probably should to keep things nice? Not sure mate but have a read here https://fullfact.org/europe/what-happens-if-parliament-rejects-brexit-deal/ in another of TMs folding under pressure moments she promised a parliamentary vote on the exit deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Do we know if the sitting government HAVE to put the Brexit deal to a vote? Like legally have to, rather than just probably should to keep things nice? Not sure mate but have a read here https://fullfact.org...ts-brexit-deal/ in another of TMs folding under pressure moments she promised a parliamentary vote on the exit deal. Perfect, I couldn't remember what was said/agreed. Shame, as otherwise even a minority government could simply push through a Brexit deal, but if the majority now have to agree on it... Let's be honest though, whatever deal the Tories get Labour, LD and the SNP won't be happy with and will vote against it. Petty point scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Petty point scoring and more indecision, a weaker pound, and more ammo to EU to say look what happens if you try and leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Its a political nightmare. They could go for points scoring but then the opposition state they are holding back the country etc. to turn public opinion. May has created chaos, to term a phrase the Tories liked to use. Before we had a government in place with a majority until 2020, now we have a coalition with a weak leader wasting valuable time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 It seemed like such a good idea six weeks ago, but then that was before May decided to shut herself in a room and not bother campaigning. I just don't get their strategy. Where was May? Where the hell was Boris, the most likeable Tory for decades? Or Rees-Mogg, someone else people like? Why did they not see that their strategy wasn't working and flood the country & media with faces and soundbites and decent policies even a couple of weeks ago? And why of why oh why even mention the dementia tax thing? Despite it being significantly better than the option we have now, it was never ever going to be a popular measure. Honestly, this is the least successful campaign since the Argies took a shine to the Falklands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I guess I'm biased when it comes to younger voters as they tend not to vote the same way as me I just don't agree that more voters is a good thing in itself. The desired result IMO is the one that benefits the country the most, and if that's achieved then I don't care if only 1 person voted. As Jetpilot also pointed out earlier in the thread, I don't think young people are particularly well informed. I've certainly seen it in myself and many others, that when you're young the ideas that you have about politics and the world are quite often very wide of the mark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 And the re-vote on fox hunting seemed to be a powder keg of emotion that is too divisive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 It was a shocker - she came across as aloof, as above politics itself as if she could just run and hide and everything would still turn out ok. For me she made too many concessions and didn't stick to her guns - something which is going to be severely tested in brexit negotiations. She just did not connect with people - its so important to do this and she failed miserably especially ducking out the debates. Boris? He was out there, here he is achieving his life long dream of meeting my son Alfie... Funny thing was if you look in the background you can see an ice cream on the floor, just before this photo Boris trod in it and my dad being somewhat quick witted whilst taking the photo said 'put your foot in it again Boris' all the security who you can see in the background were sniggering, Boris found the joke 'kinda' funny...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I guess I'm biased when it comes to younger voters as they tend not to vote the same way as me I just don't agree that more voters is a good thing in itself. The desired result IMO is the one that benefits the country the most, and if that's achieved then I don't care if only 1 person voted. As Jetpilot also pointed out earlier in the thread, I don't think young people are particularly well informed. I've certainly seen it in myself and many others, that when you're young the ideas that you have about politics and the world are quite often very wide of the mark. You could therefore argue all the older people that voted leave for the EU were equally less equipped to vote that way (as all sensible options if you read up on it said stay) - but who is to say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I apologize for ranting, but this has to be said... Its funny you guys trying to talk sensibly and logically about what has simply descended into chaos. The British electorate is in TOTAL disarray, you shouldn't be saying things like 'May must go'. That's not helpful in any way shape or form, she's our democratically elected leader now, you HAVE to give her a chance AND your support, anything else would be idiotic. You just voted her in and now you want to get rid of her the next day!!? Remind anyone of another recent election across the pond? This chopping and changing who we like every 5 minutes because of arbitrary criteria (fox hunting, WHAT THE HOLY HELL? WHO GIVES A $HIT ABOUT THAT when people are being blown up and the pound is falling, and the Germans are trying to take over the world again, you change your vote 'because fox hunting is bad, mkay?', let's look at that when things are a bit less chaotic, hm?!). The truth is that most of those politicians ARE equipped to lead, at least on an educational level, look at Greece, we voted for a guy who didn't even speak English. The problem is you entitled brats aren't giving them a chance to lead. Everything they do, they have to fight a million special snowflakes who have picked up on some aspect that they feel 'isn't right', and decided to incite the mob. Pick a goddam leader and for fks sake give them some support instead of your constant derision. I am again disappointed to be British today, we have become no different from the segregated (in terms of wealth and status) entitled brats in America, unable to put ourselves into the shoes of others or leave our comfort zones, and it's sad as fk, cos we used to be better than that. Chucking in 40 years of EU cos the farmers don't like the EU tax on carrots and a few racists want to stop immigration? Bravo, what a fk up. Immigration won't change in the short term, the farmers will be POORER and the racists have got emboldened by their moral victory. Mercy me, all of that stuff could have been negotiated, but nooooo, because some some people's stick up their arse has a stick up it's arse, we had to have a total divorce, why? To send a message? What message, that we're idiots to whom 40 years of cooperation don't mean anything? Nice one. Then there's the morons who changed their vote for this GE based on the load of complete and utter tripe in the press. I fking give up. /end rant Edit: calmed down the language a tad, but not too much Edited June 9, 2017 by Aashenfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Theresa May has not been democratically voted in, she failed to win a majority government and took the country into a bad place. The vote is a clear indication that there is a lack of confidence in her ability to lead the UK through Brexit - the same is being said of every senior politician across the EU. What is idiotic is continuing down a path that will shape the country forever with the wrong person at the wheel. I would rather we pause, sort it out, and go again than pretend it will all be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Well, she won 'the most'. This is the whole thing, by casting votes willy nilly without a real clue, we've ended up without leadership AND out of the EU. Such a shame. P.S. Interesting isn't it, how a 1.5% majority isn't enough to choose a clear leader every five years, but somehow it was enough to reverse 40 years of politics...? Edited June 9, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 That's democracy for you and actually shows how much the EU referendum caused so many problems splitting votes out to marginalized parties to chase single policies. So yes I agree it is crazy but as I said the EU referendum should never have gone ahead. Is it idiotic though to try and sort this out, I don't think so. Does the UK trust TM to navigate the next 5 years of brexit work, not a chance. Just read what the EU ministers are tweeting, everything points to a worse outcome for the UK if she stays - regardless of whats gone before the best future for the UK is not under an unelected PM with no confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 the EU referendum should never have gone ahead But don't you think it's sad when we have to admit that our people are so ignorant, they shouldn't have the right to vote on certain matters? The thing is it would have become an election pledge at some point anyway, but hey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I wasn't saying Fox hunting was why she lost, but more as you described, she threw odd issues into the mix to win favour. I agree with you, its chaos and a shame Edited June 9, 2017 by Jay84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 TM is off to Buck Palace to ask permission to form a government by all accounts - can only assume that means pulling in the DUP. They I am sure will want as soft brexit as part of the deal (free movement etc). Sat here shaking my head as I type...what a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Every time I click the link on the DUP site to download the manifesto it crashes...a few people reading up it seems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Blimey, Paul Nuttall has gone...who would have thunk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I wasn't saying Fox hunting was why she lost, but more as you described, she threw odd issues into the mix to win favour. I agree with you, its chaos and a shame I know mate, it was silly of her to mix things up, and that muddying was what you were referring to, sorry for implying that you meant something else, actually it was just in my field of vision and I picked up on it as one of the many minor things that people seem to think are more important than real issues. Don't get me wrong, it is a real issue and I want it banned, but in times like these we are living in, it's no reason for the electorate to have the hump, one way or the other. Edited June 9, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Its cool dude, I know it wasn't personal to what I said, but a frustration at the way things have gone, i still loves ya lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 Labour were selling a golden ticket to the middle class youth, and they bought it hook, line and sinker. I can't say I blame them in fairness, and in a way it's a shame that Corbyn didn't get in so they can see just how much bull he was selling them, but that will come with time. The good thing about lots of young 'uns voting now is that when they grow up and realise how the world works, that's plenty of people to vote Tory instead. I don't blame Corbyn or Labour for this mess at all though. I congratulate them on a fantastic campaign, they did exactly what they needed to do. Whoever advised TM needs firing, and if it all came from her then she's the one that needs firing instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Apparently David Davis was the guy pushing the snap election and May went with it - far too much confidence up front and far too much complacency when campaigning. I am with you on congratulating Corbyn, despite having views that are a bit out there came across a much more engaging, he actually seemed to be enjoying going up and down the country and facing into people and their concerns than May who seemed to duck out at every opportunity - cannot remember such a monumental balls up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I guess it'll be some time after the palace visit before we know any more, whether it'll be a coalition, or a minority. Am I right in thinking Corbyn was dead against forming a coalition with anyone? I wonder if he'll U-turn that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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