No just no!

[Aashenfox]

I like everything about it except the stripes which make me think it's trying to look like a Shelby.

[Sargara]

I suspect the Supra will be even more than that tbh. The BMW version will slot in between i8 and Z5, so between £60k and £100K which for argument sake gives you £70K. The Toyota will of course be less, so a nice round £10K discount should put some distance and tempt buyers. That'd be my best guess at this point, it'd be nice if it was less than that but I have my doubts.

 

The list price is somewhat irrelevant, they can list the new Supra, Zed, NSX at whatever they want but the days of cars being purchased outright is over, its all about the £££pcm figure now which is where alot of the recent cars have failed massively, as they dont seem to support their finance packages anywhere near as much as the German brands do.

 

I bet if Subaru/Toyota tried, they'd shift a lot more GT86's with a wallet friendly £££pcm figure but last I looked the "deals" they had were shocking.

 

The same will apply to the new Supra and Zed, if they made the numbers work they would sell regardless.

[Stutopia]

GT86/brz has been aweful sales wise

 

I heard that too, but then I had a look.

 

2016 US Sales Figures

 

11,598 pa, average 966 pcm BRZ/FR-S

9,465 pa, average 789 pcm Miata

5,913 pa, average 493 pcm 370Z

 

US sales figures from here

[StevoD]

GT86/brz has been aweful sales wise

 

I heard that too, but then I had a look.

 

2016 US Sales Figures

 

11,598 pa, average 966 pcm BRZ/FR-S

9,465 pa, average 789 pcm Miata

5,913 pa, average 493 pcm 370Z

 

US sales figures from here

 

so two cars made just 2k more sales than 1?

 

was this before the new miata was released or after seeing as the miata NC had been out since around 2005/6 be interesting to check 2017 figures at end of year

 

Either way 11k sales is poor considering the mustang sold

105,932 units last year in the US

 

And the impreza WRX sold

33,279 just show the market isnt there for the cars

Edited April 6, 2017 by StevoD

[Ekona]

I'm amazed the 370 sold that many at all.

[StevoD]

Just looked the miata has sold an extra 973 units in the first 3 months compared with last year

 

also the combined sales of the fiata last year in the us was 11,940 units so it still out sold the toybaru duo

Edited April 6, 2017 by StevoD

[Stutopia]

Just looked the miata has sold an extra 973 units in the first 3 months compared with last year

 

also the combined sales of the fiata last year in the us was 11,940 units so it still out sold the toybaru duo

 

I'm not suggesting that it's the best selling car ever, just the statement that it is "aweful sales wise" is simply incorrect compared to other two door jap coupes, which after all, is it market.

[StevoD]

Just looked the miata has sold an extra 973 units in the first 3 months compared with last year

 

also the combined sales of the fiata last year in the us was 11,940 units so it still out sold the toybaru duo

 

I'm not suggesting that it's the best selling car ever, just the statement that it is "aweful sales wise" is simply incorrect compared to other two door jap coupes, which after all, is it market.

 

You also chose its biggest market pull the same numbers from, becuase in the UK from what i can see in the 6 years its been on sale less than 6000 (gt86) have been registered and less than a 1000 BRZ in the same period.

 

7000 mass produced 'cheap' cars in 6 years is awful.

 

The toybaru market is two door coupe it is up against the camero/mustang etc in america as they all share the same price bracket (all starting at around $25-26k)so its market share for cheap 2 door rwd coupes is dreadful.

Edited April 6, 2017 by StevoD

[Richf]

Nissan love editions like this , no options and no variation thats keeps that factory turning most efficiently , try and sell them afterwards.

 

Smacks of flogging a dead horse to me

[Stutopia]

Just looked the miata has sold an extra 973 units in the first 3 months compared with last year

 

also the combined sales of the fiata last year in the us was 11,940 units so it still out sold the toybaru duo

 

I'm not suggesting that it's the best selling car ever, just the statement that it is "aweful sales wise" is simply incorrect compared to other two door jap coupes, which after all, is it market.

 

You also chose its biggest market pull the same numbers from, becuase in the UK from what i can see in the 6 years its been on sale less than 6000 (gt86) have been registered and less than a 1000 BRZ in the same period.

 

7000 mass produced 'cheap' cars in 6 years is awful.

 

The toybaru market is two door coupe it is up against the camero/mustang etc in america as they all share the same price bracket (all starting at around $25-26k)so its market share for cheap 2 door rwd coupes is dreadful.

 

As you mention UK sales figures, for the Mustang they shifted 3500 in just over 6 months, do some quick maths to work out a year, based on 6 months.

 

That's more or less the same.

Yeah aweful.

Except obviously the numbers.

When compared against the best selling sports coupe in the world's UK sales.

[Ekona]

As you mention UK sales figures, for the Mustang they shifted 3500 in just over 6 months, do some quick maths to work out a year, based on 6 months.

 

That's more or less the same.

Yeah aweful.

Except obviously the numbers.

When compared against the best selling sports coupe in the world's UK sales.

I don't get that.

 

Mustang sold 3500 in 6 mths

BRZ86 sold 6000 in 6 years

Does that not equal the Mustang selling 7k per year and the BRZ86 1k per year? Or am I looking at totally the wrong figures here?!

[StevoD]

As you mention UK sales figures, for the Mustang they shifted 3500 in just over 6 months, do some quick maths to work out a year, based on 6 months.

 

That's more or less the same.

Yeah aweful.

Except obviously the numbers.

When compared against the best selling sports coupe in the world's UK sales.

I don't get that.

 

Mustang sold 3500 in 6 mths

BRZ86 sold 6000 in 6 years

Does that not equal the Mustang selling 7k per year and the BRZ86 1k per year? Or am I looking at totally the wrong figures here?!

 

thats what it reads to me

[Stutopia]

As you mention UK sales figures, for the Mustang they shifted 3500 in just over 6 months, do some quick maths to work out a year, based on 6 months.

 

That's more or less the same.

Yeah aweful.

Except obviously the numbers.

When compared against the best selling sports coupe in the world's UK sales.

I don't get that.

 

Mustang sold 3500 in 6 mths

BRZ86 sold 6000 in 6 years

Does that not equal the Mustang selling 7k per year and the BRZ86 1k per year? Or am I looking at totally the wrong figures here?!

 

Sorry, I should have explained better.

 

That's 7000 in 5 years against, 7000 in one year, equivalent of 20% of the volume of the World's Best Selling Sports Coupe. That's working on the assumption the Mustang maintains that same volume over 5 years. If you compare the year ones for them both, then it's 2497 v 7000, which is 36% of the volume of the World's Best Selling Sports Coupe.

 

My contention was, and is, that "aweful" is hyperbole. And I think it's borne out in the numbers, rather than the anecdotes.

[Ekona]

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong numbers, it is 7000 for the BRZ86 not 6000, my bad.

 

As long as it's making profit then that's fine. I think we all expected it to do better than it has done though, but the price over here is what's held it back I think. That said, it's been good for residuals so swings and roundabouts.

[Aashenfox]

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong numbers, it is 7000 for the BRZ86 not 6000, my bad.

 

As long as it's making profit then that's fine. I think we all expected it to do better than it has done though, but the price over here is what's held it back I think. That said, it's been good for residuals so swings and roundabouts.

 

Personally, I never expected it to do well, simply because I laughed when Clarkson told us that it has 200hp and can only drift because it's rolling on 2p pieces. I immediately thought to myself. "@*!#, I'm gonna need at least 70 more horsepower, rims and tyres on the first day!! F that, I'll buy a 350Z instead for 1/10th the price and have a much better car".

 

disclaimer: not better, but more exciting out of the box. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and the way the car looks (don't understand why some say it's ugly, it has nice aggressive lines), and if it had 300 hp and decent width tyres on it, it would be one of the greatest driver's cars ever made.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

See, it doesn't need any more power, it's ace as it is.

[Aashenfox]

Can't tell if serious...

[Ekona]

Serious. I can pedal one of those as quickly as I can anything else on the road, it's just too expensive as an overall thing.

 

If anyone says they need more power than that, they cannot drive for toffee. Lovely chassis, great driving position, just let down on price and slightly naff interior for me.

[Aashenfox]

I can't drive for toffee, I'll freely admit that (though God knows how that would translate to the average driver who has less than 1/5th of my paltry ability ), but I couldn't be satisfied with a power to weight ratio of less than 200hp/metric ton any more. I'd be pushing it on (you know, rocking backwards and forwards in my seat while shouting 'Come on!!!' in a vain effort to make it accelerate faster. ). I don't mind if you say that's subjective, and that it's my problem and not the car's, but I genuinely believe that's why it hasn't sold well. There are more exciting cars available second hand for much less.

[coldel]

If it had 300bhp out the box then its either a turbo engine or a larger NA, which incurs significant cost and possibly a move away from the ethos of the car that the maker intended vs their target audience. Would Subaru want this 300bhp with their current range of cars?

[Aashenfox]

I like model marketing and price placement reasons for 'detuning' a car even less. It;s a crying shame the Cayman is not available with 911 power, for example. Porsche would never do that, despite the fact I don't think a front engine 2 seater would directly compete with a rear engine 2+2 even if they did have the same power to weight ratios, but hey-ho, we all know that's why they don't do it.

 

Who do you reckon the target audience is? Just some thoughts, I welcome counters...

 

Boy racers... too expensive

Young guys who can't afford to insure anything faster... maybe, but still purchase price would be off putting to that crowd

People who want a second fun weekend car... get a 2 seater, a 350Z for example

Drivers who appreciate the history of the 86 name and the ethos behind the car... well, that's me and I want more power.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

200bhp/ton is perfect for the roads, but I can be just as happy with much less as long as the weight is lower. A 350Z has just 24bhp/ton more than a stock GT86, which let's be honest really isn't a massive amount: It's almost identical to teh figure between a DE and an HR, for example.

[Aashenfox]

The torque difference is much more telling, but I do see what you mean, it's not a huge overall power or 0-62 difference, but it is the way it's delivered. I'm pretty sure my EP3 Type R was faster in a straight line from a roll than a stock GT86. The EP3 weighs 1240kg, how much is the GT86?

 

Ah, I found it, it's only about 20kg heavier and due to being rear wheel drive would have better traction. Hm...possibly slightly quicker than an EP3 type R then, but not much. My Z is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the EP3 Type R in a straight line, that's all I'm saying.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox

[coldel]

I like model marketing and price placement reasons for 'detuning' a car even less. It;s a crying shame the Cayman is not available with 911 power, for example. Porsche would never do that, despite the fact I don't think a front engine 2 seater would directly compete with a rear engine 2+2 even if they did have the same power to weight ratios, but hey-ho, we all know that's why they don't do it.

 

Who do you reckon the target audience is? Just some thoughts, I welcome counters...

 

Boy racers... too expensive

Young guys who can't afford to insure anything faster... maybe, but still purchase price would be off putting to that crowd

People who want a second fun weekend car... get a 2 seater, a 350Z for example

Drivers who appreciate the history of the 86 name and the ethos behind the car... well, that's me and I want more power.

 

Those though aren't really segments in brand marketing terms. For me a more defined segment for this car would be entry level sports car for the driving enthusiast with relatively low running costs. Its going to be a small segment of the overall customer base, but I think they get a lot more media attention and headlines for the brand with this car than any of their best selling models.

[Aashenfox]

Yeh, but that also works as a counterpoint, despite all the clever marketing and the excellent driving position and steering, and the fact that your Granny can drift it safely, plus it's great looking, plus it's cheap to run, PLUS it's a Toyota so it will last forever, plus, plus, plus, and STILL it didn't sell!

 

I believe because people like me who are as you say, part of a small segment of immature males (and even smaller segment of immature females) who would be interested in owning the car, looked it up and down and said..."ok, nice, but where's the full fat version?"

 

EDIT: The rear tyres are 185s aren't they? So they'd have to go first day for something wider, the alloys are 2p pieces so to fit proper tyres I'd have to change the alloys. Because of the crap power, I'd have to be very careful what wheels I put on, so as not to increase rotating mass too much, killing what little torque there is, so I'm looking at 3 grand on the first day just to have a bit of grip! Then there's the power...(again). It almost seems to me like the car was designed to be a bare bones platform for modifications from day 1. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly the thinking, which then takes us back to the price, which is a lot for a 'bare bones' car.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aashenfox