Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) So after about 13 years on ebay, I just gave my first negative feedback in response to my first ever dispute (I was once robbed straight, but that wasn't a dispute, lol, the seller took the money and disappeared off the face of the planet). Here's how the recent incident went... I wanted 4 items each weighing about 30g from Latvia to Greece. The Latvian seller was offering these (as many as I needed) at 14 quid each plus 5 quid delivery. I sent him an offer of 12 quid each for 4 off, whilst referring in the offer to the fact that I expected delivery to be combined for all 4 items at the 5 quid delivery cost, since the weight would go from 30g to 120g, still less than the weight of the jiffy bag they would be sent in. He responds to the offer offering me 50p of each item (13.5GBP), but he had not amended the delivery cost, it still showed 4 times 5 quid, 20 quid. I thought, ok, he just forgot to amend it, so I accepted the offer of the goods at 13.5 each then immediately sent a 'request for total', expecting that I would get a new total with 4x13.5 plus 5 delivery. I waited a day, 2 days, 3 days...no reply. Here's where I made my only mistake... I decided I would pay the offer in full, because I needed the parts, and we would work out the delivery later, so I sent the payment, with a note that specifically and clearly stated 'Please send refund for 15GBP excess delivery'. Two days later the goods were dispatched, no refund yet. I figured I'll wait til they arrive, then ask the guy what's happening before leaving feedback. After the goods arrived, all good, I sent the guy a message saying I was very happy with the items and my purchase, thank you, but I am still waiting for the delivery refund. I also mentioned, perhaps unnecessarily, that if the refund was prompt I would be leaving a glowing feedback. He responded straight away accusing me of exaction (first contact, he had ignored all attempts at communication to this point), of making him pay for my feedback, and stated that the extra delivery cost was part of the price of the items. As many of you probably know, this is against ebay policies. The item price and delivery cost are supposed to be totally separate costs and billed as such, for many reasons. I got rather annoyed at being first ignored, then cheated and then finally accused of fraud! So I sent him a detailed message explaining how what he was doing was wrong and against ebay policy, and if he really need the extra money for the items, he should have replied to one of my previous messages, and that I probably would have still proceeded with the order. I was a bit lecturey to tell you the truth, I told him that by ignoring people he allows them to set their own expectations, etc etc. and at the end I pointed out that what he was doing is against policy, but that I wouldn't report him, as long as I get my refund, and that 10GBP would be ok in the end. I felt like this was quite generous-spirited of me, after the rudeness I had received from him. I also added a PS that I did not like being accused of fraud in asking only for what I felt was right and that if he accused me of that again, I would give him a negative feedback immediately. He made the fatal mistake of opening his reply with another accusation... "Looks like you have experience in this (intimating that I try to extort money from people for feedback regularly). I have never had to pay for feedback before, but is first time for everything I guess. I give you 5GBP". when I read that I started fuming. I don't know about you guys, but I tend to be a stickler for people doing what they say they will do, so I felt that after that he had left me no choice. I immediately gave him a negative feedback as I had promised him I would, stating 'Does not combine shipping, ignores communications, then accuses YOU of fraud', word for word quote, I had only 1 character left!! They really should provide more space for negative feedback to explain the situation... I then sent the asshat the following message, word for word. Again I got on my high horse, but I don't care. 2 days have now passed, and he has not replied, nor given me any feedback of any kind. I warned you not to accuse me of making you buy my feedback. Keep my money, no problem, you are getting a negative now, as I promised. I really tried to be nice about it and instead you accused me of fraud when it's you who is fraudulent. This was never about the money, this was about being cheated and IGNORED. Here's another warning, which I suggest you listen to this time... Since you have now kept my money, I expect a positive feedback. If I get one, this ends here, I will not report you for policy violation or make any further attempts to recover money. If you DARE to give me a negative feeback, I will report you for violating ebay and paypal policies, and ask Paypal for my 15GBP back. By the way, about your comment that I have experience with this, no. I've been on ebay for 12 years and never had a single dispute before. Think very carefully before ignoring people in future, but even more, before insulting and accusing them when you are in the wrong, that was your big mistake and why you got a negative feedback. I hold no personal grudge, good luck in future. I hope you learned something from this experience. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 If I remember correctly, sellers can not actually give buyers negative feedback. You used to be able to, which was a great way to identify potential bad buyers, but then ebay changed the rules so you cant. You can give positive or nothing. So then the seller has the dilemma do they give a positive feedback for a negative experience but put comments in reflecting this, or just dont bother giving any feedback at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 I didn't know that, thanks for the info. I remember a time when you were guaranteed a revenge negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) By the way, since this feller is in our circle, I should name him...I'm not saying don't do business with him, just agree everything beforehand, and make sure you get a response from him... It's nissan_parts_international My wife thinks I was harsh on him, but she's a bit soft generally. I think I could have been harsher. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I'd say its your fault tbh, it states on an ebay listing whether a seller offers combined postage, if it dont then thats what you pay? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Fair enough. I don't completely agree, but I can see where you're coming from. In this particular case, it was not stated whether delivery would be combined or not, but I think on a 30g item, it's fair to expect that it would be, especially 4 of those items not equalling 4 times delivery cost. 20 quid for a 150g packet inside eu, without tracking or insurance, is out-fking-rageous. He could have sent it DHL same day for that (it took the usual 2 weeks to arrive, typical economy service). I also think that if it happened to you, you'd see it differently. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 But you agreed the offer, and accepted and paid? then asked for a postage refund after? you should have worked out the deal before accepting and paying for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I did try, several times, but was ignored (I admitted my mistake was accepting the offer, but I had a shop deadline to meet or lose my slot for my car for a month). I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, but it's about reasonableness. If you think that is reasonable, then we won't ever agree. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I would have just sent a 'Please confirm total shipping' message, before purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I did, and waited 3 days for a response. It was at that time that I decided I couldn't wait and would have to work it out later. Let's be clear about what's happening here...The guy is screwing people on delivery, period, that's not really in question. If you're suggesting that I should have let him get away with it, because I didn't exactly follow the rulebook myself, well, again I don't agree. The way I see it is that he'll definitely think again before doing this to someone else, so for me, mission accomplished. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne370Z Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I`m sure that the spirit of your actions has just not been conveyed fully in the story because, on the face of it, that reads to me that you willingly paid up the full amount and then tried to get money back from him using the feedback as leverage and the fact that you reduced the amount you would accept, again to me, would indicate that you perhaps realised you weren`t really entitled to it as opposed to you were being reasonable about it. If he was difficult to communicate with initially surely that indicated he would be even worse to try and get a refund from? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly350z Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Not going to comment on eBay side of things as Ive never sold on there, only purchased so don't truthfully know the full ins and outs. But I used to be a post office master, and can fully say that 20quid for 150 grams is crazy. But my experience lays strongly within UK costings, my only question is though is there a difference as its Latvia to greece? Not the shortest of journeys lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Did they arrive in one pack or four? If it's one, he's got no business charging you four times. If it's four, the price was shown in full, you paid it, it arrived. Case closed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 yeh, maybe the details are triclky to glean from all that text... I made it clear to him from the start that I expected combined delivery... 1) In my initial offer, I asked combined delivery. 2) I requested total after accepting the offer and waited 3 days for a response, none came. 3) I sent him a message asking when he would process the refund he KNEW I wanted FROM THE START. Then he starts accusing me of trying to exact from him. Add in the fact that I didn't get my money and won't be going after it, this was not about money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gudzy Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I'm siding with the seller on this really. Yes, shipping could be combined and really should be, but you paid with it not combined and there is no mention anywhere of him accepting your offer of combining the postage. By paying, you accepted his price which included extra postage per item. Take a step back and look at it from the sellers point of view. I beleive eBay charge fees on postage now anyway, so I'm not sure what he's getting out of not including that cost on the listing, other than making it look cheaper than it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Did they arrive in one pack or four? If it's one, he's got no business charging you four times. If it's four, the price was shown in full, you paid it, it arrived. Case closed. 4x 30g items in one jiffy bag, one load of economy delivery paid, there's no way this cost more than 5 quid to send to me. Thanks for the support, it;s appreciated, I was starting to doubt myself. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Did they arrive in one pack or four? If it's one, he's got no business charging you four times. If it's four, the price was shown in full, you paid it, it arrived. Case closed. I too wondered this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I agree that if he's charged you 4 times you should have got 4 parcels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I'm siding with the seller on this really. Yes, shipping could be combined and really should be, but you paid with it not combined and there is no mention anywhere of him accepting your offer of combining the postage. By paying, you accepted his price which included extra postage per item. Take a step back and look at it from the sellers point of view. I beleive eBay charge fees on postage now anyway, so I'm not sure what he's getting out of not including that cost on the listing, other than making it look cheaper than it is. ok, I'm looking at it from the seller's point of view (by the way, I have sold on ebay a few times myself)... He has in his hand a person asking for combined delivery. He's thinking to myself. "hm, I'm kinda screwed now, because I need him to pay the delivery 4 times because for me, it's part of the price of the parts. I know, I'll just ignore him"....you agree that this was the right action on part of the seller on the first place? If so, let's move on..."hm, he sent me a request for total, damn, this guy really doesn't want to pay the fraudulent delivery I'm trying to charge him...I'll just ignore him again, maybe he'll get desperate for the parts". Sure enough, I did. He's now reading my message on my payment saying I expect a refund of delivery and thinking "I hope he just lets this go if I ignore him a third time, I don't care anyway, I've got his money now"... Unless you see something else happening here? Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Oh, and by the way, the parts weren't so cheap that one would expect to pay again in delivery (like it's obvious from some of the Chinese auctions that want like $400 delivery). The price was 'about' right, fractionally cheaper than from my local Nissan dealer who told me this part has never ever come to Greece and would take a month to source, but would cost about the same as the Latvian guy was charging. That's why I was on ebay in the first place. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gudzy Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Him not responding to your offer of combined postage doesn't mean he will accept it. He didn't forget to amend the postage cost, that was his offer, with the cost included. Not getting any response to agreeing to combine the postage before paying is the main problem with this transaction in my eyes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Yes, indeed, but this is fraudulent, according to ebay policy. At the exact moment that he admitted to me that the extra delivery cost was 'part of the cost of the parts', and the package arrived in one packet, he is totally in the wrong, technically and morally. In any case, whether by the rules or not, he charged me 4 times for postage that he only needed once, the parts weren;t so cheap as to justify the delivery being part of the cost, in fact, I've now worked it out more exactly and they were already more expensive than getting them from nissan before delivery. I don't need anyone else's opinion on that, it's wrong. He got a negative because of his attitude and lack of communication until there was an issue. I'm surprised at the people saying I should have let him screw me and take it on the chin just because I accepted the offer...I genuinely expected more people to say I was easy on him. There's a technical side here and a moral side. The technical side is questionable (though I do feel that ebay would rule in my favour if I pursued it), but the moral side is not. He thought he'd make some extra money on the parts by charging delivery 4 times and thinking there was nothing I could do about it despite the fact he knew from the start that I wasn't interested in paying delivery 4 times, then he tried to be a smart guy by accusing me of trying to pull something. Well, I could have taken it on the chin and walked away, but I didn't, I chose to do something about it. I really don't understand how you guys can think that by accepting the offer, I waive all my rights to pursue being screwed over and then treated like I'm the one that's out of order. Things must have changed more in the UK than I imagined, Brits used to stand up for what was right. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I think it is unreasonable to start saying things like Brits standing up for whats right etc. and calling out members on here for not agreeing with you. You posted up this asking for opinion, people are looking at it and giving it. Reading this objectively, I would disagree with your original post, in that your first mistake was accepting the offer until you clarified the postage error as others mentioned - you assumed the postage error on your part without confirming it with the seller, regardless with him being unprofessional further down the line, by doing that you ultimately put yourself into a position with having to negotiate it to a level which you felt was correct, which the seller didn't agree with, and here we are. Looking at the profile, he has 100% positive response so far, including many offers which probably were similar situations to yours so it, clearly though he has taken your email about a refund and the review completely the wrong way (as email often can be taken). If he was cheating and ripping people off left right and centre I am sure there would be more evidence of it on the feedback? I think if you are that aggrieved just put it through the ebay system and let them do their stuff - often you do not have to do very much and they take on the leg work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 You made a mistake by assuming the seller would agree with you. Morally, he's in the wrong, he should have cancelled the sale if he didn't agree with the terms. Technically, he's probably in the wrong, but I'm not sure on the rules of abiding by any notes attached.. Also, won't his ebay fees have been higher because he accepted a higher price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I wasn't being serous about Brits, just being funny, no offense intended. But I doubt the situation has cropped up before where he had the opportunity to charge a high delivery 4 times for 4 extraordinarily lightweight items. I admit my mistake, and paid 15 quid for it, his was ignoring me in the first place and then having the gall to call me fraudulent for asking a perfectly reasonable refund of excess delivery, which was not just excess, but outrageous, as pointed out. I guess it's fair enough in the end, we both paid for it. I would have given him a neutral if he had been polite about it. It's resolved to my satisfaction, I'm not asking for anything more. By the way, read some of the 'positive' comments, at least two that I remember were very negative, wonder why people do that? @terrible service, will not deal again' is pretty unambivalent. Strudul, I guess the fees would have been higher but proprotionately, it's still worth his while doing it isn't it? But yeh, I gave him the benefit of the doubt on the technicality of it (he still has my money), I just stopped dealing with him and decided to give him a negative when he repeated an accusation that was nothing like what was happening. Edited April 3, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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