Scottish Referendum

[Irn Bru]

Random point and can't type much as broken my hand but I wonder if England will ever get a referendum to divorce the rest of the UK. You heard it here first!

would certainly make for intersting change of news on our TV screens every night, cant see it though as there is no Nationalist political parties in England only Unionist partys

[Stutopia]

Random point and can't type much as broken my hand but I wonder if England will ever get a referendum to divorce the rest of the UK. You heard it here first!

would certainly make for intersting change of news on our TV screens every night, cant see it though as there is no Nationalist political parties in England only Unionist partys

 

Maybe this could be UKIP's new angle now they've been cast into obscurity

[formatzero]

I'm getting totally fed up hearing Queen Nicola,s voice ,she has lost the plot.No way would I want anything to do with the E.U. Scotland has four times more trade withe the rest of the UK than it does with the EU.She also seems to have lost sight of the fact that we have homeless people sleeping rough and more than 25% of children living in poverty,very odd for a left wing party !

There also seems no mention of how much Scotland would have to pay to the rest of the UK as our share of the national debt,or what our contribution to the EU might be.

Even if independence was won future elections may put Tories or Labour back in power or in coalition,SNP is not guaranteed to be in power for ever !

[JetSet]

So the Scottish government have voted to request another referendum, obviously TM can refuse and probably will but whats folks thoughts?

 

Yes, once we have the Brexit thing well out of the way, I don't see any reason why a second referendum can't be held. If Scotland votes Yes to independence and then joins The EU there will be major ramifications for both Scotland and those of us South of The Border. This may be considered scaremongering by some but I don't see how 2 countries, one a member of The EU with free movement and the other a non member with a policy that restricts immigration can possibly have an open border as it does now (same for Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland) . If someone thinks an open border can exist then please explain how it'll work. On the other hand, Scotland may after some consideration not want to join The EU so that problem would go away. This and many other factors makes the situation really complex and before Scotland has another vote they need to think things through and debate the issues to death thoroughly. For example England/Wales/NI are by far Scotland's largest market (75%) but as a member of The EU they would have to accept whatever deal (or no deal) is agreed between The UK and The EU....anyway, once we've seen the deal and seen it at work for a few years then the people of Scotland can all have a debate and finally another referendum, 2021 or 2022 maybe?

 

Pete

[Jetpilot]

I know its only one persons view Mr Bru, but do you think it would be a close run thing as before, in the balance say?

[Irn Bru]

I think the Brexit deal will be the biggest thing that will make up people's minds but I still reckon we will vote to stay with the uk. Remember it was only 400k more in favour to stay in the eu than to leave. The snp and the uk media make it out that everyone in Scotland voted to stay, it's just not true. 33% of snp supporters voted leave. But you won't hear Sturgeon admit to those true figures. She just quoting the 62% of the actual counted votes, but omits the other facts and information. She just plays the system to suit her own agenda.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Irn Bru

[TomBorehamUK]

Oh NS

[-G-]

There's a far easier way to determine how people feel about independence. You don't ask them if they think Scotland should be independent.

 

You ask them

 

If Scotland were already an independent country, would you vote to enter a political union with England under the exact same terms we have now?

 

Not a single person in thier right mind would. It would be akin to asking the Americans if they fancied being a Colony all over again.

[Ekona]

That's not the question though, and neither will it ever be so we'll never know the answer.

 

The real question is whether the Scottish people are willing to take a massive leap into the unknown, with so much resting on such little information and such empty promises, led by such a weak party that refuses to answer the basic questions?

[coldel]

That's not the question though, and neither will it ever be so we'll never know the answer.

 

The real question is whether the Scottish people are willing to take a massive leap into the unknown, with so much resting on such little information and such empty promises, led by such a weak party that refuses to answer the basic questions?

 

All sounds a bit familiar though Dan!

[Angrybiker]

The Scottish government has more of a mandate for a second referendum than Theresa May does for her hard Brexit.

 

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[Jetpilot]

There's a far easier way to determine how people feel about independence. You don't ask them if they think Scotland should be independent.

 

You ask them

 

If Scotland were already an independent country, would you vote to enter a political union with England under the exact same terms we have now?

 

Not a single person in thier right mind would. It would be akin to asking the Americans if they fancied being a Colony all over again.

 

So if Scotland was already an independent country and you wouldnt vote to enter a political union with England, surely you wouldnt vote to enter a political union with the Eu under the same terms you have now, your terms will be set at Brussels, not what NS or the "people" want.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Jetpilot

[Ekona]

The Scottish government has more of a mandate for a second referendum than Theresa May does for her hard Brexit.

How do you reckon that?

[WINKJ]

The Scottish government has more of a mandate for a second referendum than Theresa May does for her hard Brexit.

How do you reckon that?

 

+1.

[Angrybiker]

Because both the SNP and the Greens had manifesto pledges to seek another referendum in the event of a material change of circumstances, specifically Scotland being dragged out of the EU against their will and a majority of Scots voted them in. Hell, the SNP narrowly missed out on an outright majority despite a voting system (STV) which is specifically designed to avoid a majority government. If that's not a clear mandate I don't know what is. Theresa May on the other hand has a UK public who narrowly voted for a leave campaign that promised amongst other things full access to the single market and millions per month to the NHS. Now there's a percentage of people who would have voted for any Brexit that stops people with a different accent coming in and stealing 'their' jobs but I very much doubt it'd be enough to win a referendum now that the type of Brexit on offer is clear.

 

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[coldel]

As I understand it she doesn't have a mandate until Theresa Maybe gives her the authority, Scotland can still have a referendum its just not legally binding. I agree to a degree that constitutional change warrants this especially given the level of support to remain in Scotland, but I do not agree with NS doing it as she is so narrow minded and has tunnel vision for a separation I genuinely do not think she has anyone except her own interests in mind. There is no thought for the people in anything she does.

[Ekona]

The trouble with the whole leaving the EU argument is that it falls apart on the basis that if Scotland leaves the UK, it also leaves the EU anyway. Given that, what's the point leaving the UK?

 

One way or another, Scotland is leaving the EU.

[coldel]

Because Scotland could re-apply, granted there are challenges, but they can re-apply whereas as part of the UK they can't.

 

Sturgeon though as mentioned has done well to dodge questions on currency, policy, security, etc so far I don't think she is equipped as a leader to do all this. The reliance on oil prices as an economy does create cause for concern, in the same way the UK economy relies so heavily on financial services where we have depleted industry sectors.

[Ekona]

True, but then they can simply have their referendum after Brexit is done and dusted like May has said. NS is trying to push her agenda based on something that doesn't cannot exist, which is Scotland never leaving the EU at all.

 

Again, I have no issue with the Scots having another crack at independence, but I don't like any part of the UK being lied to in an important referendum. That equally applies to the £350M NHS lie, as well as George's emergency budget to tax everyone lie for Brexit.

[Angrybiker]

A mandate is the authority to carry out a policy regarded as given by the electorate to a party winning an election. Scotland voted for this but Theresa May can tell us to get back in our box. Let's remember that during the first Indy ref we were told that If Scotland stayed we'd be "valued and equal members of the UK" Doesn't feel like it. And for the record I'm not actually a huge fan of the SNP. They're a little left wing for my taste but they're a means to an end. And regarding Europe yes we may need to leave with the rest of the UK but if we were independent WE could decide if we want to reapply or do a Norway and pay for certain benefits without full membership.

 

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[Ekona]

But do you not feel that you don't even have half the answers from the independence side of the argument yet? Regarding things like currency, finances, trading etc.

 

In what way do you not feel valued members of the UK? Any more so than Essex or Dorset, for example. Genuinely curious on this one, not picking a fight

[Aashenfox]

The trouble with the whole leaving the EU argument is that it falls apart on the basis that if Scotland leaves the UK, it also leaves the EU anyway. Given that, what's the point leaving the UK?

 

One way or another, Scotland is leaving the EU.

 

This. it really is entirely moot.

[Stutopia]

The trouble with the whole leaving the EU argument is that it falls apart on the basis that if Scotland leaves the UK, it also leaves the EU anyway. Given that, what's the point leaving the UK?

 

One way or another, Scotland is leaving the EU.

 

This. it really is entirely moot.

 

But it's not is it, because Scotland could join.

[Aashenfox]

That would take 10 years.

[Ekona]

No-one knows how long it will take: Could be a year, could be ten years. The problem is that NS hasn't even bothered to find out exactly how long, or what the process would be: She's leading people into a blind trap, in the same way the Leave campaign did for Brexit. Scotland could end up with the worst of all worlds, and that would be a real shame.