Family members car went in for an MOT and the garage have crashed it!

[nowhereboy]

Just looking for advice/opinions on this.

 

My Partners brother took his 09 plate sxi Corsa in for an MOT, after completion the garage sent the car to the cleaners across the road and someone from the cleaners has managed to reverse the car into something.

 

I haven't saw the car in the flesh yet but from what I can see in the pictures the rear bumper has took a good hit and the boot lid was also damaged, the rear windscreen had also shattered. This only happened this morning and the garage have "fixed" the car already. They have replaced the window but with a standard one, the sxi corsa comes with tinted windows but they have replaced his broken rear windscreen with a stock plain glass one so now his windows don't match as the side windows are still tinted. From the pictures it also looks like the boot no longer sits flush. It's obliviously took one hell of a wack and when I get to see the car I'll be checking for any further damage hidden from view.

 

I'm livid about this but obviously it's not my car, I suspect the garage are not going to do anything further and in their eyes it's "job done".

 

Is this a police matter? What happens from here, no way I'd settle for an outcome like this.

[Ekona]

Not a police matter, it's purely civil.

 

The easy answer is to speak to the garage and tell them that they've put the wrong window back in, supply proof of pics if needed. If they refuse to help, look for their insurance policy that legally has to be displayed and contact their insurers and claim through them. Trust me, when they see you going to do that they'll put it right.

[Ekona]

Note your (their) claim is with the garage, not the cleaners. That's very clear, no matter what they say.

[BobbyZ]

I'd be getting onto their insurers ASAP if they're trying to say it's all sorted. The car will need to be checked out properly to see if the chassis is bent etc.

 

I'm curious to know how they managed to do so much damage reversing, but I guess that's kinda academic now...

[nowhereboy]

Thanks Dan.

 

I suspected he could play the insurance card, I would imagine he wants to avoid that if possible as he's only a young lad and a claim (even no fault) will more than likely impact his premiums etc.

 

Good idea to mention it to the garage tho as it might be the kick up the backside they need to get it sorted. The car is still with them and I've told him not to collect it until some sort of agreement is made. If possible I will go to the garage with him myself tomorrow, he's not the type of guy to stand up for himself and I'm worried if he goes alone he will just cave and accept the car as it is.

 

I have history with this garage already as when me and the Mrs went through a rough patch she panicked and traded her car for another one with them as she couldn't afford to run hers without me living with her. They completely ripped her off and gave her a complete banger to drive about in, saw her coming from a mile off.

 

Not a happy chappy right now.

[ATTAK Z]

I know it's hard but try to keep your cool tomorrow

[TT350]

Was it definitely the valeters and not the mechanics?

 

When i had a Renault Clio I took it to have some work to pass its MOT. The garage was down an awful sh1tty lane. Where you pull in off the main road theres quite a ledge and one of the mechs must have approached the ledge at some speed and bottomed out going up it. My front bumper was split and hanging off where the bumper meets the front wing.

 

They denied all.

 

It'd just been replaced too!

Edited December 30, 2016 by TT350

[Ekona]

Thanks Dan.

 

I suspected he could play the insurance card, I would imagine he wants to avoid that if possible as he's only a young lad and a claim (even no fault) will more than likely impact his premiums etc.

No, not his insurer, the garage's liability insurance. It won't affect his insurance in the slightest, no need to inform them at all.

[ZMANALEX]

It is instances like this where a hard wired dash cam is extremely useful.

[Ebized]

It is instances like this where a hard wired dash cam is extremely useful.

 

.....and it is a type linked to your phone.

 

If it is one just recording to a card then it has been known for unscrupulous garages to wipe the card!

Edited December 31, 2016 by Ebized

[glrnet]

It is instances like this where a hard wired dash cam is extremely useful.

 

.....and it is a type linked to your phone.

 

If it is one just recording to a card then it has been known for unscrupulous garages to wipe the card!

Ain't that the truth!!👎

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nowhereboy]

Thanks Dan.

 

I suspected he could play the insurance card, I would imagine he wants to avoid that if possible as he's only a young lad and a claim (even no fault) will more than likely impact his premiums etc.

No, not his insurer, the garage's liability insurance. It won't affect his insurance in the slightest, no need to inform them at all.

 

Not meaning to sound like a know it all here but as you know I work in insurance. Strictly speaking he would have to declare it as a "loss" As insurers ask "any claims, accidents or losses in the last 5 years". I'd be concerned that if he doesn't mention it to his insurer and the garages insurer update CUE database it will come to light anyway. I'm not familiar with liability insurance from a garage so I may be wrong, maybe they don't update CUE but I'd imagine they still do? If that was the case it will pop up on his insurance records anyway. Is it fair? Not really but I see this happen quite often at work.

 

Anyway I'm not going to the garage as I fear it wouldn't end well, I'm already upset about what they did to my partner and I'm not sure I could be civil. He is going to the garage today and I have still advised him to do as you said Dan, with the hope that will motivate them to sort it. I'll keep you all updated.

[Ricey]

^ to my knowledge trade is dealt with in exactly the same way. Its not liability insurance its either covered by the road risk element or the other one that i can never remember the name of 'goods in trust' or something like that.

 

Either way I wouldn't rely on the fact that a database somewhere doesnt get updated.

 

Regardless it shouldnt really affect his premium as its statistically a non-event.

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

 

[docwra]

It is instances like this where a hard wired dash cam is extremely useful.

 

Why would that make any difference when they have already admitted fault? They can hardly say that nowhereboy crashed the car when it was in their possession

 

Theres clear cut and then theres clear cut, the car has to be put back to the owners satisfaction at the cost of the garages insurance. No favours or anything to be done here, this is 100% business.

[Ekona]

It's not a claim (not his policy), not an accident (obvs), and not loss (he's not out of pocket or lost anything). It was damage that occurred when the car was being worked on by someone else. It's their liability, nowt to do with the OP.

 

If a tradesman damages a counter top when installing your washing machine, do you declare it to your home contents insurer? How about if someone damages your watch when servicing it, and they replace the glass? Contents again? Nope.

 

I know you work in the industry bud so I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but in no way would that affect his insurance at all. 100% wouldn't need to declare, that just wouldn't make sense. The car wasn't his responsibility when the damage happened.

[ZMANALEX]

This should help explain:

 

What is public liability insurance?

Public liability insurance covers the cost of legal action and compensation claims made against your business if a third party is injured or their property suffers damage whilst at your business premises or when you are working in their home, office or business property.

This also includes the cost of medical treatment and transportation costs incurred by the NHS should they claim this amount from your business following an accident.

What level of public liability cover should I buy?

The amount of cover that your business will require in this area largely depends on the level of risk that it undertakes on a daily basis. You will probably find that there are accepted minimum standards for the particular industry you operate in, and there may be requirements specified by your clients in this area. Before making a decision on how much cover to buy, you should always check out both of the above

In particular, if working on a government or local authority contract you will usually find that they stipulate a minimum level of cover in this area and it's common for this to be between £5 -£10million.

Is not having public liability cover insurance illegal?

The only type of business cover that would be considered a legal requirement is employers' liability insurance (although this only applies if you have one or more staff members in your employment and there are some noteworthy exemptions). Choosing not to purchase some of the covers that come as part of an overarching business insurance policy will not land you in trouble as they may not be appropriate for your business type, and are therefore not a legal requirement.

It is however important to have public liability cover in place to ensure that your business is protected financially, and also to make sure that the interests of the public and your clients are protected. You'll additionally find that some businesses will be required by clients to have certain insurance covers in place. Two examples being; a DJ who would need their own public liability insurance and a financial adviser who would usually be advised to have professional indemnity cover in operation.

What is an example of a public liability claim?

A plumber was working on a residential property situated in a block of flats. The plumber made an error and failed to fit taps correctly during the repairs. As a result, the error caused water damage at the flat which also extended to some of the properties below.

What did the insurance company pay for? The insurance company in this circumstance paid for corrective repairs to the damage caused under the public liability section of the policy, costing a total of £20,000.

What did the insurance company not cover? The plumber had to pay the excess of £250 in order to facilitate the claim.

Where do your public liability quotes come from?

MoneySupermarket.com have teamed up with Simply Business to provide you with a business insurance comparison service which allows our insurance partners to provide live instant quotes based on the information given on our quotation form.

The quotes returned during the comparison process are real and the insurance documents can be viewed - and the policy bought - within minutes, all without even having to leave our website.

My search returned no quotes, why is this?

Occasionally our comparison tool will be unable to return an instant quote if your business needs are too complex. In this case it may take us two to three days to get back to you with an accurate quote to more specifically address your business insurance needs.

I've filled in the quote form, what happens next?

Once you've filled in the required information and clicked on "submit" you'll be taken to the results page. In normal circumstances you should receive anywhere between one and seven quotes from a variety of insurers and you'll be able to view the policy documentation, excesses and exclusions for each product to allow you to decide which policy to purchase.

[nowhereboy]

Thanks Dan/Alex.

 

This has really got me thinking now! It's not that I want to start a debate or anything, I just know logic and insurance companies doesn't really go hand in hand unfortunately.

 

I completely understand your point Dan but I just can't help thinking the garage's insurance would still update the claims database once settled to say this happened.

 

To give you another perspective lets Look at it from a private car insurers point of view. What happens if the garage repair the vehicle to a bad standard, nobody informs the insurance company about the accident or repairs and two weeks later something falls off the car causing an accident and a big third party claim comes in for tens of thousands of pounds. The insurer sends the assessor to check over the vehicle and establishes the accident was caused through bad repair work or previous damage from a recent incident they knew nothing about. I can't see that going down to well.

 

I've delt with a few accidents that have been settled outside the insurance where the insurance company has been informed out of courtesy by the policy holder, often the insurer will request a new MOT and engineers report to make sure vehicle has been repaired to a good standard before continuing cover.

 

I once saw an underwriter throw out a claim because it had came to their attention that the vehicle had previously been hit whilst parked by the owners neighbour, the owner wasn't in the car. The neighbour had paid for the damages and settled it outside insurance but told his insurer, his insurer updated the claim database to state an incident had occurred and they updated CUE with the information for both parties. Our insured had never disclosed this as he didn't think he had too, he wasn't at fault, he wasn't in the car and the damages had been repaired. Following a separate accident months later when our insured went to make a claim the insurer checked CUE and threw the claim out because this previous incident hadn't been disclosed. This was a pretty rare case but gives you an idea of what can potentially happen. The policy was declared void as in this particular case the insurer would have never covered our customer in the first place with this disclosed.

 

As I say I don't know for certain either way how it works and while I think I may well be right I also think you could be right too, I'm just giving a little insight into why I'm thinking this way. I can find out for certain on Tuesday when I go back into work as I'll speak with a claims underwriter.

Edited December 31, 2016 by nowhereboy

[Ebized]

Thanks Dan/Alex.

 

This has really got me thinking now! It's not that I want to start a debate or anything, I just know logic and insurance companies doesn't really go hand in hand unfortunately.

 

I completely understand your point Dan but I just can't help thinking the garage's insurance would still update the claims database once settled to say this happened.

 

To give you another perspective lets Look at it from a private car insurers point of view. What happens if the garage repair the vehicle to a bad standard, nobody informs the insurance company about the accident or repairs and two weeks later something falls off the car causing an accident and a big third party claim comes in for tens of thousands of pounds. The insurer sends the assessor to check over the vehicle and establishes the accident was caused through bad repair work or previous damage from a recent incident they knew nothing about. I can't see that going down to well.

 

I've delt with a few accidents that have been settled outside the insurance where the insurance company has been informed out of courtesy by the policy holder, often the insurer will request a new MOT and engineers report to make sure vehicle has been repaired to a good standard before continuing cover.

 

I once saw an underwriter throw out a claim because it had came to their attention that the vehicle had previously been hit whilst parked by the owners neighbour, the owner wasn't in the car. The neighbour had paid for the damages and settled it outside insurance but told his insurer, his insurer updated the claim database to state an incident had occurred and they updated CUE with the information for both parties. Our insured had never disclosed this as he didn't think he had too, he wasn't at fault, he wasn't in the car and the damages had been repaired. Following a separate accident months later when our insured went to make a claim the insurer checked CUE and threw the claim out because this previous incident hadn't been disclosed. This was a pretty rare case but gives you an idea of what can potentially happen. The policy was declared void as in this particular case the insurer would have never covered our customer in the first place with this disclosed.

 

As I say I don't know for certain either way how it works and while I think I may well be right I also think you could be right too, I'm just giving a little insight into why I'm thinking this way. I can find out for certain on Tuesday when I go back into work as I'll speak with a claims underwriter.

 

Interesting and informative what you have shared there

 

Given the scenario you mention about an underwriter throwing out a claim....would I be right in saying that the owner's NCB, protected or otherwise, would not be affected but that insurance companies are likely to increase the owner's premium at next renewal (and maybe for 5 years). I say that given feedback I have seen in the past that insurance companies perceive added risk because of the mere simple fact the owner the other party. Or dare I say, an excuse to get more premium revenue.

[Ekona]

Some do, some don't. My insurance went down after my accident a few years back, and again this year after the lorry driver ran over the BMW in April.

 

So if you take your car for a service, and the garage snaps the exhaust hanger by accident, and they then replace it for you, do you have to notify then? What about if they drop a spanner and have to get the wing resprayed? Where do you draw the line? I think if you look at it that way, you can see that it would be unrealistic to have to notify your insurer if a company damages your property.

[Randy_Baton]

Who's idea was it for it to be sent to the cleaners? That's not a normal MOT thing.

 

If your relative requested in to be cleaned, then wouldn't the liability shift to the cleaners, as you stated above that the cleaner was in it when the accident occurred? Presumably the end cost will be picked up by them some how. If you claim against the garages insurance, won't they then claim against the cleaners insurance (not that that should impact your relative in any way).

[nowhereboy]

I think the garage have some sort of relationship with the cleaners and it is routine for them to get the car cleaned after an MOT. I suppose the garage also do favours for the cleaners.

 

Thanks Ebized, anytime an insurer has been made aware of an incident that was settled outside of insurance they tend to update the claims database and log it as a "no fault" (regardless of who was to blame). It sits on the database in the exact same way a no fault claim would and will affect the customer in exactly the same way too. People obviously want to do the right thing and inform the insurer when an accident has happened, they often settle it outside insurance then ring up to advise. Unfortunately most dont realize this will cause the insurer to update the database regardless and had they not been at fault they may as well have made a claim. You could argue its wise to make sure neither party informs the insurer if you are deciding to settle outside insurance as its not likely the insurer will find out about it otherwise.

 

As Dan stated not all insurers will load a premium for a no fault claim or an incident settled outside insurance but some do. It tends to affect people who are already a bad risk to the insurer in a more negative way (young drivers, foreign license holders etc).

 

One could obviously argue the insurers use no fault claims as an excuse to bump up the premium. The insurers argument would say someone who has had a few no fault claims is statisticly more likely to make a fault claim in the next year than someone who has had no claims at all.

[nowhereboy]

Worth a mention that while this last point may seem hard to believe its actually something I see on a daily basis. You tend to get customers who either make zero claims or customers who have an arrary of fault and no fault incidents. I guess this could be put down to bad luck more than anything else mind.

[Strudul]

The insurers argument would say someone who has had a few no fault claims is statisticly more likely to make a fault claim in the next year than someone who has had no claims at all.

I'd have though it'd be the other way round if anything?

 

Lightning never strikes twice.

[Bandit]

My wife crashed the car this morning.

When the police came she said the guy involved was on

his mobile and eating at the time.

The police advised her the guy was entitled

to do what he wanted in his own conservatory.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Bandit

[Flex]