Sargara Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Loving the detail in here. You can really tell Jerrick nerds out on this stuff for his job given the length of the replies, its reassuring to see at least from a bystanders perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Rocket_Rabbit: I am curious as to what you think of the videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hahahaha! You do realise that's all copy and paste from other sites. It's been doing the rounds for years! Really? I swear I was sitting there typing it out? Can you show me where it was copy and pasted from please? Jerrick 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hahahaha! You do realise that's all copy and paste from other sites. It's been doing the rounds for years! Who's reaction to the video did he copy/paste then above where he was agreeing or explaining why he didn't to the points raised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayvn Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Loving the detail in here. You can really tell Jerrick nerds out on this stuff for his job given the length of the replies, its reassuring to see at least from a bystanders perspective Hahahaha! You do realise that's all copy and paste from other sites. It's been doing the rounds for years! You need to qualify that statement or apologise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works I try to justify £2500 to myself on a daily basis. Havent quite got there yet Would also state that Ive seen no evidence of KW v3's for £1250 as claimed earlier in the thread. You gets what you pay for I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayvn Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works I try to justify £2500 to myself on a daily basis. Havent quite got there yet Would also state that Ive seen no evidence of KW v3's for £1250 as claimed earlier in the thread. You gets what you pay for I think Totally understand that, that's why the only reason i bought them was because i grabbed a brand new set at £1400! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works I try to justify £2500 to myself on a daily basis. Havent quite got there yet Would also state that Ive seen no evidence of KW v3's for £1250 as claimed earlier in the thread. You gets what you pay for I think Totally understand that, that's why the only reason i bought them was because i grabbed a brand new set at £1400! Have you tried other coilovers, and if so how do the Öhlins compare? Edited January 7, 2017 by BobbyZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works I try to justify £2500 to myself on a daily basis. Havent quite got there yet Would also state that Ive seen no evidence of KW v3's for £1250 as claimed earlier in the thread. You gets what you pay for I think It was me that bought them for that Why would I need to prove it to you If the op wants some I'll get hI'm them lol Its a price that was granted to me so why would I need to flash the invoice around on here to satisfy everybody's needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Why? Perhaps because I PM'ed you as Im interested in a set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Why? Perhaps because I PM'ed you as Im interested in a set? I had a few people pm me and said once people had confirmed they wanted them I'd aproch my contact and see if I could get that price for the people that wanted them Which I still will When I get chance to sit down and go threw the people that wanted them I'll ask the question I'm not saying it's a definite but that's what I got them for and can prove it Don't feel I have to to anyone tho I'm pretty sure James junior got them for not far of my price at demon tweeks if you look threw his posts on his thred Edited January 7, 2017 by nissanman312 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works The Ohlins DFV is a very good suspension. It is the "bar" we use to measure the MeisterR GT1. I actually had a few customers who been in both Ohlins DFV and the MeisterR GT1, and most reaction is positive for both suspension. "In Theory", the Ohlins DFV should handle big bumps better (such as curb strike / pot holes), and the MeisterR GT1 will handle smaller vibration (such as small bumps on country roads, vibration that you will get on motorway) better. However, feedback seems to be the other way around, where some said the GT1 actually handle the pot holes better than the DFV. There are very minor difference between the two in those area, but it is just what the owners pick up and send back to us as feedback. Those feedback mainly comes from EVO and GTR owners as Ohlins been offering the DFV to those community for a bit longer than others. The latest MeisterR GT1 uses a "Zero Bleed" CNC piston, and it allows us a lot more control over the dynamics of the damper. So far they have been working great, and I am sure as time goes on we will get more reviews for them. The GT1 being quite a bit cheaper than the DFV is also a bonus, but I personally feel at this price bracket the performance of the suspension is much more important. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Jerrick, what options are there in terms of absorbing impacts that are 'sharp' vs 'non-sharp', i.e. in your example I think for a fast road set up the preference would be to absorb small vibrations and pot holes (that I would classify as sharp) and still have maximum control over larger, lower frequency deflections like rollers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Jerrick, what options are there in terms of absorbing impacts that are 'sharp' vs 'non-sharp', i.e. in your example I think for a fast road set up the preference would be to absorb small vibrations and pot holes (that I would classify as sharp) and still have maximum control over larger, lower frequency deflections like rollers? If you think of "sharp" and "non-sharp" as piston speed, that will help it easier to understand. When you are driving on the motorway, you get a lot of small vibration that isn't very fast, those I would say it's "non-sharp" When you are driving down a country road and hit a pot hole, you get a very big and fast movement, those I would call "sharp". Because those two event are two different piston velocity, it mean it is handled different in the damper. The "slower" movement are part of the "bleed circuit". You want the internal oil to flow pass the piston easily so those small movement are absorbed instead of being transferred. This is where "harsh" ride from coilovers comes from, because race suspension don't really have a bleed circuit. The don't want the bleed because it will put more force onto tyres faster and harder, and that is how you get damping response. The issue with that on a road car is it will ride harsh like if the suspension did not exist... something I absolutely hate. The GT1 use a "Zero Bleed" piston, but we control the "bleed circuit" by using a dual stack shims on the compression side. What that mean is you have a stack that is very light that will open easily, but then it is limited by a second stack that is stiffer. That way you can have bleed for ride comfort, but will not get sloppy steering response because the bleed are immediately controlled. The "faster" movement are part of the "blow off". When the suspension reach a certain velocity, basically it mean it is no longer vehicle dynamically relevant. Because when you hit a pot hole, you don't really need any damping force to control it. So this blow off tells the suspension to let it go, because you don't need to worry about it. If your suspensions generate too much force, that is when you get this super jarring ride and your tyre lose traction... not good. The GT1 internal shims stack have this blow off incorporated. That is when 20 years of suspension engineering experience from a vehicle dynamic engineers really comes into play. Basically, this is when Black Art Design start doing black arts... and make things work. Building a suspension is actually pretty easy. Building a suspension that works is the more difficult task. And when it comes to engineering, I can tell you that us British still have it in a world class level. Jerrick Edited January 7, 2017 by MeisterR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veilside z Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Have a Brand New set of BC coilovers (RS) still boxed for sale £595 ono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Hah, I certainly appreciate the input ! One thing I'm not massively concerned about is the body coating, as I tend to get the car on the ramp quite frequently, so always give them a wipe down, however yes the KW bodies always look great no matter the age. The KW V3 is £1728 though. What MeisterR suspension did you have, and was it from new ? I payed 1250 for my v3 they are epic I love them PM me for details of who to speak to regards price I dont want to be a tosser about it but this suggests anyone can get them for £1250 ......... not as part of group buy if there are enough other people and the vendor decides to go for it. As it stands they are £1600 odd for my car and apparently £1700 for a 350Z which is a good few hundred more than Meisters and more than twice what HSD cost. Edited January 8, 2017 by docwra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Hah, I certainly appreciate the input ! One thing I'm not massively concerned about is the body coating, as I tend to get the car on the ramp quite frequently, so always give them a wipe down, however yes the KW bodies always look great no matter the age. The KW V3 is £1728 though. What MeisterR suspension did you have, and was it from new ? I payed 1250 for my v3 they are epic I love them PM me for details of who to speak to regards price I dont want to be a tosser about it but this suggests anyone can get them for £1250 ......... not as part of group buy if there are enough other people and the vendor decides to go for it. As it stands they are £1600 odd for my car and apparently £1700 for a 350Z which is a good few hundred more than Meisters and more than twice what HSD cost. That's a fair and justified comment to make i opolagise if I made out they were available to everyone to buy at that price clearly they are not However this is what I payed and would be willing to see if I could get some kind of group buy for people Let me contact the vendor first of all and see if they would be willing to do some kind of group buy resulting in a discount to the fourum then if that's a possibility I'll discuss with the mods to see where the land lies with this as he's not a trader on here Leave it with me I'll ask the question Edited January 8, 2017 by nissanman312 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 What is a fast road set up? This is banded about on lots of forums and it is borderline cringeworthy. There is no such thing as a fast road setup. But to answer your question the high speed damping and control of the KWv3 smashes the MeisterR. This is not just a benefit for roads, but track too as you can attack the curbs more aggressively without losing your wheel contact. A fast road setup is what we in vehicle dynamics class as a "Tarmac Rally" setup. Tarmac Rally is a graph that is "shield" shape in the force vs displacement dyno. This type of damper have smooth progressive lead in to the peak compression force. This allow suspension to absorb uneven road surfaces and retain contact with the road. They have long peaky rebound curve, as they control kinetic energy early on. A motorsport setup have a FvD graph that is what we call a "square" setup. This type of damper have very high compression cracking pressure, very aggressive on the tyres. Do not provide compliancy at all. The rebound do not control the kinetic energy until the very last moment, and this allow the damper to return quickly to it's initial starting point but comes to a abrupt stop. Also not comfortable. A very comfortable damper will have a "oval" graph. This type of damper literally have no cracking pressure, and does not have any abrupt change of direction. The type of damper are what BAD build for Rolls Royce. So I hope this enlighten you what is a "fast road' setup and how it compare to other damper vehicle dynamically. The Ohlins DFV aren't as good and you're really paying for the name. ] If you honestly think that Ohlins DFV, a complex high pressure mono-tube damper with a high speed compression blow off design. Is not as good as the KW V3, a low pressure twin-tube damper with an adjustable centre jet and a base valve. I am sort of speechless, and would highly recommend getting a little more information regarding suspension design. To me, that is almost like saying Rays wheels aren't as good as Rota, and you are really paying for the name. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 OK I've contacted the chap who sorted me out regarding a group buy I'll await his response Also just for reference James juniors thred Where he talks of a price very close to mine with no group buys from dt I don't know if kw's have gone since we got these prices but could be worth speaking with dt aswell http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/107272-a-370z-with-a-modern-twist/page__fromsearch__1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The GT1 being quite a bit cheaper than the DFV is also a bonus, but I personally feel at this price bracket the performance of the suspension is much more important. If I coud get a set of DFV's for anything like reasonable money Id probably have them fitted already, so straight question - would you (or more importantly your customers) claim that the GT1's perform as well as the Ohlins for fast road and streetcar track use? I seem to have booked myself a trackday at the Ring this morning you see ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 If I coud get a set of DFV's for anything like reasonable money Id probably have them fitted already, so straight question - would you (or more importantly your customers) claim that the GT1's perform as well as the Ohlins for fast road and streetcar track use? I seem to have booked myself a trackday at the Ring this morning you see ......... I guess the best feedback I can give is this: The owner of a local performance shop in the USA who is a big EVO tuner and a big Ohlins dealer drove my 350Z with the GT1 fitted. He was unsure about the MeisterR, and I said "I got a 350Z there with the GT1 coilovers fitted, go for a test drive" He came back 10 minutes laters, got out the car, look at the sales manager, and said "We can sell this". Like I say, performance is "subjective", so there isn't a solid measurement of better or not. But if you ask me the straight questions of: Would I claim that the GT1's perform as well as the Ohlins for fast road and streetcar track use? I would answer YES. It is a big claim, but I couldn't think of a scenario where the Ohlins DFV would out perform the GT1 in every single performance category. And that is me, being fair, unbiased, and quite conservative; because it is a BIG answer to give, and a huge expectation to live up to. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayvn Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I vote for Ohlins DFVs just to throw more spanners into the works I try to justify £2500 to myself on a daily basis. Havent quite got there yet Would also state that Ive seen no evidence of KW v3's for £1250 as claimed earlier in the thread. You gets what you pay for I think Totally understand that, that's why the only reason i bought them was because i grabbed a brand new set at £1400! Have you tried other coilovers, and if so how do the Öhlins compare? Unfortunately i haven't tried many and they were of the cheaper spec stuff, i have tried the standard suspension, BC Coilovers, and MeisterR (the non GT1 spec, the lower spec ones) I found that the BC Coilovers were crashy and would lift too much at motorway speeds, when there were big undulations it felt like i was boating, then when it came to small bumps it felt like it crashed everywhere. Hated them in the end! MeisterR is fitted to a mates car, while pretty good, better than the BC, they were smooth, but the damping forces when tried to drive hard just didnt work that well. Worked great as a normal daily driver that's for sure. Never drove it on the motorway so i can't give anything on that. Ohlins, literally as soon as i started driving them on the setting they recommended you could tell how well the damping was for the car, the crappy roads over here weren't crappy anymore, no more sloppiness and there was a massive increase in confidence when driving hard, it just was everything i needed it to be, of course there could be better ones, but for the money i paid i don't think i'll be able to get any better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 MeisterR is fitted to a mates car, while pretty good, better than the BC, they were smooth, but the damping forces when tried to drive hard just didnt work that well. Worked great as a normal daily driver that's for sure. Never drove it on the motorway so i can't give anything on that. When was the MeisterR fitted? Do you know which version was it? Just checking to see if you know. For me, feedback like these are important. Always want to know more about criticism so I can see if there are anything I can do to improve things. Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 My pal has onlins on his 350 it feels Awsome and so composed not crashy hard to say if they are worth the extra over kw v3 I havnt experienced the meister r stuff so can't comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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