A grammar question for Hugh

[coldel]

The differences in handling between acronyms and initialisms is another conversation all of its own. I didn't want to introduce the concept of initialisms vs acronyms at this point, but it's a point will made, as genuine acronyms largely follow the colloquialisms rule.

 

Truth is its getting more and more acceptable to just be understood, nobody cares to be right any more, I blame the Internet

 

I blame car forums in particular...

[brillomaster]

problem is, what is 'right' keeps changing.

 

it wont be too long before 'lol' is a word in its own right, kids these days are already using it as a verb 'I lolled'

 

and yes, its almost entirely the internet's fault, in days gone by you'd have a secretary type your letters, now any old chump can spew garbage all over the internet!

[Aashenfox]

problem is, what is 'right' keeps changing.

 

 

You're not wrong there, which is why people like me (sometimes foolishly) try to hold on to the 'old ways', and eventually end up being behind the times and therefore wrong. Whatever is known by the majority is really what's important, as that gives you a better chance at being understood, much as it pains me to say it. We'll be back to olde english before long with people spelling words exactly as they please and there probably won't be any issue either.

[Strudul]

Aww I missed out on all the grammar stuff and everyone's covered what I wanted to say, even the extra stuff on 'aitch' and initialisms.

[Aashenfox]

I got one for you then, lets digress ever so slightly...

 

The price of progress...

 

I blame the internet for bad spelling and grammar, I already said that, but really, if you think about it, it's the price of progress. Nobody would ever say that the damage the internet has done to good spelling and grammar in EVERY language would negate the good that it has done. We all now hold in our hand (smartphones) virtually unlimited access to the entire repository of world knowledge (and you only use it to play Angry Birds while takinga crap? shame on you), and I'm giving the internet a kicking for ruining spelling and grammar? Seems rather petty, doesn't it...

 

But this is it...language is important. Every language is a product of its culture. The English have umpteen descriptions for rain, the eskimos for snow, the Greeks have 4 times as many general words as most other european languages. How big a price are you prepared to pay for progress?

 

Some say the next big enabler for the human race, and a big step toward World Peace would be to all speak a common language; already English has started to fill that role, becoming the language of business. While it is clear that the loss of grammar quality caused by the internet does not negate the good it does, or rather the PROGRESS it gave us, is the loss of culture surrounding languages worth it for the progress it would give us?

 

If all of a sudden, all countries stop supporting their native language and switch everything to English...

 

The productivity of the whole world would go shooting up within ten years, but is the loss of culture worth it? Waht's more important to you, our uniqueness or our ability to progress as a species? Then to bring that full circle, is the progress of the internet worth the loss of culture after all?

 

Very round about and philosophical, but you get what I'm saying I hope. Tell a Greek that in 100 years his progeny will be speaking exclusively English and no Greek he'll tell you he hopes he doesn't live to see such a drastic loss of culture (and it would be, Greek is 4 times richer as a language than English).

Edited December 19, 2016 by Aashenfox

[coldel]

... err I still say its pronounced Christmas

[Strudul]

Wouldn't bother me, a common language is only a good thing afaic. Though I'd be a bit miffed if I had to learn a new language.

[Aashenfox]

Wouldn't bother me, a common language is only a good thing afaic. Though I'd be a bit miffed if I had to learn a new language.

 

It is said (but it might be an urban legend), that when the official language of America was being decided (I don't know at what point this was), that the decision was taken to use English over Greek, but only by a very few votes, the intellectuals thought it would be an opportunity to spread Greek more, because it was the language of Science.

 

We may well all be speaking (at least basic) Greek now if that had happened.

[-G-]

pps its definitely 'a hotel'. and 'a hospital' and 'a historian' about the only exception for 'h' when its not an abbreviation is 'an hourglass'

 

I already wrote "an honourable mention" but an honest man is another.

[Strudul]

pps its definitely 'a hotel'. and 'a hospital' and 'a historian' about the only exception for 'h' when its not an abbreviation is 'an hourglass'

 

I already wrote "an honourable mention" but an honest man is another.

Or heir, or hour (which Stu already brought up).

[JetSet]

It's all about pronunciation and where you come from, for example if you are in the habit of dropping the H then you would say "in an hour" or I'm staying at an hotel" but you wouldn't say an Hare or an Habitat because you wouldn't drop the H. Like I say, this is quite a regional thing and there are individual variations. Like I would use an in front of Hotel, hour but not in front of house. It's a similar thing with words beginning with U, it's "a Unicorn" but its also "an unbelievable event" or "an umbrella".

 

Having said all that, if you are writing say on a forum then you should not drop the H and use the correct written grammar, a hotel. etc.

 

Pete

[-G-]

It's all about pronunciation and where you come from, for example if you are in the habit of dropping the H then you would say "in an hour" or I'm staying at an hotel" but you wouldn't say an Hare or an Habitat because you wouldn't drop the H. Like I say, this is quite a regional thing and there are individual variations. Like I would use an in front of Hotel, hour but not in front of house. It's a similar thing with words beginning with U, it's "a Unicorn" but its also "an unbelievable event" or "an umbrella".

 

Having said all that, if you are writing say on a forum then you should not drop the H and use the correct written grammar, a hotel. etc.

 

Pete

 

[Strudul]

Seriously though, it's always an hour and a hotel. That shouldn't even be up for discussion Edited December 19, 2016 by Strudul

[ATTAK Z]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

Edited December 19, 2016 by ATTAK Z

[JetSet]

H-dropping occurs (variably) in most of the dialects of the English language in England and Welsh English, including Cockney, West Country English, West Midlands English (including Brummie), most of northern England (including Yorkshire and Lancashire), and Cardiff English.^[5] It is not generally found in Scottish English or Hiberno-English. It is also typically absent in certain regions of England, including Northumberland and East Anglia, although it is frequent in the city of Norwich.

 

I was born and brought up on Merseyside and although my scouse accent is not that strong I do still drop my H's (unless I really concentrate )

 

Pete

[-G-]

It's the old Saaf'ampton and 'Eafrow

[JetSet]

It's the old Saaf'ampton and 'Eafrow

 

Yes, pronunciation in The U.K varies to amazing degrees. For example I say scone by dropping the E at the end (scon) whereas Caroline who is also a Merseysider, if Southport counts as Merseyside pronounces it as cone with an S in front.

 

Pete

[ATTAK Z]

Well this is interesting ... From a personal point of view I would never ever use the word 'Xmas' instead of 'Christmas', neither written nor spoken.

 

I think all contributions on this thread are valid - well most anyway. The only thing I would say is that anyone who has learned Greek has my congratulations ('cos it's hard to learn) and my condolences ('cos there are few people you can hold a conversation with).

 

Finally (and this brings tears to my eyes), I am now going to hand over the role of GLO to Aashenfox ... many thanks to all who have supported me in making the Forum a safer place.

 

I wish you all an Feliz Navidad

[ATTAK Z]

Mods please close the thread ... I have spoken

[Ekona]

Noooooooooooo the original and the best, you shall never step down!

[350zedd]

It's the old Saaf'ampton and 'Eafrow

 

Yes, pronunciation in The U.K varies to amazing degrees. For example I say scone by dropping the E at the end (scon) whereas Caroline who is also a Merseysider, if Southport counts as Merseyside pronounces it as cone with an S in front.

 

Pete

Pete..We all know Southport aspires to be the posh half of the pool, or at least it used to, even though I lived there meself haha, and 3 of my children were born there.

What always amazes me, is that you can travel less than 20 miles east from Liverpool and the dialect totally changes!

[ioneabee]

Noooooooooooo the original and the best, you shall never step down!

He has spoken but as usual we is ignoring him

[ATTAK Z]

Noooooooooooo the original and the best, you shall never step down!

He has spoken but as usual we is ignoring him

 

You should be considering my dilemma in post 39 !!!

[ioneabee]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

thats easy .............. you raft it or pile it .............. but wow - never seen ground wobble like that before

[ATTAK Z]

I'm here now and I shall deliberate and adjudicate in due course ... in the meantime perhaps you'd like to view the vid I've posted below and let me know how the hell I'm going to build a nice Sports Centre on this sh!t ?

 

 

 

https://harryfairclo...c2d30c45d&rev=1

thats easy .............. you raft it or pile it .............. but wow - never seen ground wobble like that before

 

Ha ha the building is piled but how do you put a piling mat down on that ? and that's where the tennis courts are going so we can't raft it for fear of differential settlement (and piling would be just too expensive)

Edited December 19, 2016 by ATTAK Z