Ekona Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Agreed. My car is just about quick enough, handles like a barge, looks like a jaffa cake, has two barely usable rear seats but you can get a BBQ in the boot. And I still love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) FRS threw me. I was sure the FRS is rear wheel drive. Took a while to realise FRS = Focus RS, not Scion FR-S. Really a BBQ in the boot is the only real requirement of any car, anything else is just a bonus. Edited November 23, 2016 by Strudul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 It's personal preference rather than fact really. Dan may find going slow and sideways fun, others may get more enjoyment out of being fast. I can appreciate each car for what it is, I enjoy the way a front wheel drive car handles, I equally enjoy the way a rear wheel drive car handles, they each have a unique experience, it's hard to compare the two because it's so different. I do miss the low slung seating position in the Z (sometimes) and at time's I miss rear wheel drive (especially midnight shopping in wet supermarket car parks ) but what my car lacks in those areas it more than makes up for it in others (straight line performance and power delivery/noise/drama). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Don't get me wrong, fast and RWD is clearly the best of both worlds, I was purely saying that I'd rather be in a slow RWD car than a fast FWD one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 More noise and drama than a Z? You must be driving yours wrong! Just kidding, but seriously, there are few cars with more noise and drama than a Z with an agressive exhaust, I;m kind of wondering what you meant or what you're comparing to, cos my 350awhp E92 was better in every conceivable way than the Z, but less noisy and much less drama, even with an Akrapovic exhaust, the engine sound is just not comparable (N54 sound is nice, but VQ=sex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocko Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I've had 24 cars including the ones below 3 skylines 200sx Honda prelude vtec Integral type R Leon 1.8t 3 Imprezas Legacy 330 BMW And most recently the 350z Lots of fwd cars in real world applications can be pretty quick. I actually had more fun driving the 180bhp Leon than I did with the more powerful 4wd cars. And I found the BMW pretty borin and that was 246bhp rwd. But when considering my most recent buy I was adamant it wasn't going to be fwd. I short listed to the 350z and an Evo and decided that enjoying the experience was better than having the ultimate A to B motor. So a rwd for me but it still needs to be the right car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 More noise and drama than a Z? You must be driving yours wrong! Just kidding, but seriously, there are few cars with more noise and drama than a Z with an agressive exhaust, I;m kind of wondering what you meant or what you're comparing to, cos my 350awhp E92 was better in every conceivable way than the Z, but less noisy and much less drama, even with an Akrapovic exhaust, the engine sound is just not comparable (N54 sound is nice, but VQ=sex). I'm comparing it to a mk2 focus ST, 2.5 5 cylinder turbo lump, it's now running 300 + bhp, downpipe, de cats and full exhaust. Again it's personal preference but to me the noise/drama/power delivery is way more satisfying than my old Z. Very aggressive kick from the turbos at 2.5k rpm and accompanied by glorious pop's, bangs and wooshy noises Don't get me wrong, the Z is a fantastic sounding car but it's not what I'd call dramatic, the power is linear and a little underwhelming (again, my opinion). Worth mentioning that a boosted Z would be borderline perfection for a road car in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 No doubt a modded ST is a FWD beast, I'd love to have a go, Focus is one of the few hatchbacks I've not owned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunRS Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 More noise and drama than a Z? You must be driving yours wrong! Just kidding, but seriously, there are few cars with more noise and drama than a Z with an agressive exhaust, I;m kind of wondering what you meant or what you're comparing to, cos my 350awhp E92 was better in every conceivable way than the Z, but less noisy and much less drama, even with an Akrapovic exhaust, the engine sound is just not comparable (N54 sound is nice, but VQ=sex). I'm comparing it to a mk2 focus ST, 2.5 5 cylinder turbo lump, it's now running 300 + bhp, downpipe, de cats and full exhaust. Again it's personal preference but to me the noise/drama/power delivery is way more satisfying than my old Z. Very aggressive kick from the turbos at 2.5k rpm and accompanied by glorious pop's, bangs and wooshy noises Don't get me wrong, the Z is a fantastic sounding car but it's not what I'd call dramatic, the power is linear and a little underwhelming (again, my opinion). Worth mentioning that a boosted Z would be borderline perfection for a road car in my eyes. as I don't own a Z and my dad is regional rep on here I'm not going to argue with people, but I firmly believe a lot a guys underestimate fwd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Underestimate in what sense though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash170990 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 i can confirm you can go sideways in a focus RS lol can have plenty of fun with lift off over steer. No its not drifting, but you can still prat about and have fun on track. I think FWD is easiest/safest to have fun in because you dont have to be as careful if that makes sense? you can drive like an idiot in FWD and be ok. RWD is more rewarding to drive if you get it right though. and AWD is awesome till you run out of grip then its a case of hoping for the best lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunRS Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Underestimate in what sense though? underestimate as in fwd can be seriously quick and fun cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Nothing wrong with FWD, forgiving and fun can't be a bad thing. RWD just requires that extra skill and the challenge of getting it right adds to its appeal as an enthusiast for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Underestimate in what sense though? underestimate as in fwd can be seriously quick and fun cars. Anyone can make a car fast in a straight line, and anyone can drive a FWD car round a corner quickly because a little lift will kill the inevitable understeer if you enter too quick. Driving something RWD takes a whole new level of talent and commitment, and that's why it's far more rewarding than FWD could ever be. No-one is saying that FWD can't be fast or fun. What I'm saying is that like for like, RWD is always preferable if you have (or want) the skill to use it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) 350z DE is quicker than DC5 round tsukuba and more fun, good enough for me. Driven my mates new Octavia vRS 230 fitted with the Leon 280 trick diff, miles quicker than a Focus RS round the Nurburgring massively due to that diff (with less power at 280) it goes round corners shockingly quick, proper point and shoot affair. Brake, turn in, apex mash throttle repeat. Was it fun though, was it rewarding not compared to the Zed which takes alot more thought and skill. Edited November 23, 2016 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunRS Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Underestimate in what sense though? underestimate as in fwd can be seriously quick and fun cars. Anyone can make a car fast in a straight line, and anyone can drive a FWD car round a corner quickly because a little lift will kill the inevitable understeer if you enter too quick. Driving something RWD takes a whole new level of talent and commitment, and that's why it's far more rewarding than FWD could ever be. No-one is saying that FWD can't be fast or fun. What I'm saying is that like for like, RWD is always preferable if you have (or want) the skill to use it properly. so why was rwd not quicker when we were on track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 While we here, ring times....... Nissan 350Z (287 PS) 8:26.00 Ford Focus RS 8:26.00 Not an exact science but.... lighter, more power, WAY better tyres too no doubt (350z OE Bridgestones are awful), yet no faster...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irn Bru Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Underestimate in what sense though? underestimate as in fwd can be seriously quick and fun cars. Anyone can make a car fast in a straight line, and anyone can drive a FWD car round a corner quickly because a little lift will kill the inevitable understeer if you enter too quick. Driving something RWD takes a whole new level of talent and commitment, and that's why it's far more rewarding than FWD could ever be. No-one is saying that FWD can't be fast or fun. What I'm saying is that like for like, RWD is always preferable if you have (or want) the skill to use it properly. so why was rwd not quicker when we were on track? Coz I'm a $hite driver lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunRS Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 While we here, ring times....... Nissan 350Z (287 PS) 8:26.00 Ford Focus RS 8:26.00 Not an exact science but.... lighter, more power, WAY better tyres too no doubt (350z OE Bridgestones are awful), yet no faster...... lighter? Both weight 1500kg plus. FRS use continental tyre as standard are rubbish. Let's not forget 350z with the holy grail rear drive, 1.0l larger and one more cylinder more make the same time as a hatch back for taking the family shopping 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 And the Zed is much cheaper to buy also..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nub Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Guys that must surely be the old RS lol? The new type R does a lap in like 7:53 I think? The new type R will also destroy the new 370z nismo in a lap because the handing is far superior and it's lighter. it would only lose in a 0-60 race. FWD cars excel in races if they're already rolling. They're generally lighter and lose a lot less power through the drive chain. Much less than AWD and I believe a bit less than RWD. FWD is at a disadvantage when launching, but in the real world and on a race track it's unimportant. Ultimately I do prefer RWD, just because personally I'd like the ability to launch well on the street. I have no idea how to drift but I can see how that's fun as well. My Supercharged FN2 is 340bhp through the FWD and without limiting boost/torque there's not much more power I could actually use without the wheels spinning. It's on AD08s too. There are 400bhp turbo FN2s and they're very very fast, as they lose so little of that power through the drive chain and when rolling in 3rd/4th the acceleration would be difficult to match. A heavier AWD would need to approach 500bhp to rival that. However with that power, the first few gears can become useless. Even 3rd gear could become useless if you have over 400bhp without a very linear power/torque curve without enough traction if the wheels just spin up. Type Rs are known for being fun FWD cars as they're high revving, light , very engaging and handle well. You need to work the engine to get the most of it. These days I prefer low down usable torque and I can appreciate a Zed is fun and appealing in completely different ways. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Yes the mk2 Focus RS 300bhp ie double the cost of a nice 350z too tbf the octy 230 is quicker round the ring than the FRS - driven it, massively quick for its relative bhp but not exciting to me. FWD can be exciting (think Renault Sport 275 and Honda FD2 type R ), however not a patch on RWD imo. Edited November 23, 2016 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunRS Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) And the Zed is much cheaper to buy also..... so the ford holds its valve far better, not exactly a bad thing eh? Edited November 23, 2016 by shaunRS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Still doesn't make the hot hatch exciting to drive though....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 The annual debate on what wheel drive is best, wonderful Fun, is a subjective word, much like Looks. What is fun to one person is not to another. Some people clearly do not enjoy the back of the car sliding all over the place and have more fun chucking cars nose first into corners. I think the argument around driver skill is somewhat flawed, whatever you are trying to get your car to do requires different levels of skill, I would imagine this chap and his FWD car has more driving skill in play below than most RWD drivers going around a track will ever have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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