Do you find front wheel drives boring?

[Aashenfox]

I'd've thought that the traction off the line in a FWD car, would be marginally better than a RWD car due to the weight on the front wheels dishing out the power. But then yes, the cornering. asking the front wheels to do too much is never good.

 

no when you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car lifting the weight off the front wheels giving less traction.

i didn't know that. Thanks!

Worth mentioning as well the hilarity of wings on FWD cars. All they do is make the driving (and steering) wheels lighter, the faster you go! Epic lulz.

[shaunRS]

I'd've thought that the traction off the line in a FWD car, would be marginally better than a RWD car due to the weight on the front wheels dishing out the power. But then yes, the cornering. asking the front wheels to do too much is never good.

 

no when you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car lifting the weight off the front wheels giving less traction.

i didn't know that. Thanks!

Worth mentioning as well the hilarity of wings on FWD cars. All they do is make the driving (and steering) wheels lighter, the faster you go! Epic lulz.

well the focus RS has a big wing on it so I guess this is a bit awkward for me

[Ekona]

Wings do have a positive effect on FWD cars. It's a myth that they don't.

[Aashenfox]

That's a HUGE statement covering a huge array of setups. I'll agree, under certain conditions...

 

1) It's a spoiler, not a wing

2) It's not at a high AOA

3) It's on a FWD hatchback, not a FWD sedan

 

If the circumstances are the opposite in any area... I.E It's a big gay wing, not just a little spoiler, it has an aggressive angle of attack generating significant downforce, and it's on the boot of a sedan behind the rear wheels, as opposed to on a hatch on top of the rear wheels, then you will not be able to steer at 100mph. I know this from personal experience (very scary). Of course, this does apply to rear wheel drive cars too...and also no argument that if you need the rear more planted, then a wing will give you that, regardless of driven wheels or size/shape of car.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Aashenfox

[Aashenfox]

I'd've thought that the traction off the line in a FWD car, would be marginally better than a RWD car due to the weight on the front wheels dishing out the power. But then yes, the cornering. asking the front wheels to do too much is never good.

 

no when you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car lifting the weight off the front wheels giving less traction.

i didn't know that. Thanks!

Worth mentioning as well the hilarity of wings on FWD cars. All they do is make the driving (and steering) wheels lighter, the faster you go! Epic lulz.

well the focus RS has a big wing on it so I guess this is a bit awkward for me

 

No worries, with front aero to match and diffusers, that's a whole different car, plus it drives the rear wheels more than the front. But yeh, as clarified above, the wings that are on top of the wheels are fine, it's the ones way out back that make econoboxes do wheelies (figuratively speaking).

Edited November 22, 2016 by Aashenfox

[shaunRS]

I'd've thought that the traction off the line in a FWD car, would be marginally better than a RWD car due to the weight on the front wheels dishing out the power. But then yes, the cornering. asking the front wheels to do too much is never good.

 

no when you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car lifting the weight off the front wheels giving less traction.

i didn't know that. Thanks!

Worth mentioning as well the hilarity of wings on FWD cars. All they do is make the driving (and steering) wheels lighter, the faster you go! Epic lulz.

well the focus RS has a big wing on it so I guess this is a bit awkward for me

 

No worries, with front aero to match and diffusers, that's a whole different car, plus it drives the rear wheels more than the front. But yeh, as clarified above, the wings that are on top of the wheels are fine, it's the ones way out back that make econoboxes do wheelies (figuratively speaking).

I have the mk2 it's fwd, it's the new mk3 that has awd

[Ekona]

That's a HUGE statement covering a huge array of setups. I'll agree, under certain conditions...

 

1) It's a spoiler, not a wing

2) It's not at a high AOA

3) It's on a FWD hatchback, not a FWD sedan

 

If the circumstances are the opposite in any area... I.E It's a big gay wing, not just a little spoiler, it has an aggressive angle of attack generating significant downforce, and it's on the boot of a sedan behind the rear wheels, as opposed to on a hatch on top of the rear wheels, then you will not be able to steer at 100mph. I know this from personal experience (very scary). Of course, this does apply to rear wheel drive cars too...and also no argument that if you need the rear more planted, then a wing will give you that, regardless of driven wheels or size/shape of car.

How many times do you see an aggressively driven FWD car lifting a rear wheel on high speed corners? Now imagine if that car had a wing pushing the rear downwards, how much better balanced would it be?

 

Hatch, coupe, saloon, doesn't matter: What does matter is the angle and location of the wing, but that's equally true for RWD cars. With FWD you're balancing the vehicle, as opposed to pushing the rear down for grip onto the driven wheels with RWD. If you're cornering at 100mph airflow doesn't give a hoot what wheels are driven, it only cares about playing silly buggers with dynamics. If you found that you couldn't steer at that speed, then something was massively wrong with your setup.

 

BTCC alone proves this:

[

[Floydbax]

Like some others on here I still miss my FTO. A wonderful package.

[Aashenfox]

That's a HUGE statement covering a huge array of setups. I'll agree, under certain conditions...

 

1) It's a spoiler, not a wing

2) It's not at a high AOA

3) It's on a FWD hatchback, not a FWD sedan

 

If the circumstances are the opposite in any area... I.E It's a big gay wing, not just a little spoiler, it has an aggressive angle of attack generating significant downforce, and it's on the boot of a sedan behind the rear wheels, as opposed to on a hatch on top of the rear wheels, then you will not be able to steer at 100mph. I know this from personal experience (very scary). Of course, this does apply to rear wheel drive cars too...and also no argument that if you need the rear more planted, then a wing will give you that, regardless of driven wheels or size/shape of car.

How many times do you see an aggressively driven FWD car lifting a rear wheel on high speed corners? Now imagine if that car had a wing pushing the rear downwards, how much better balanced would it be?

 

Hatch, coupe, saloon, doesn't matter: What does matter is the angle and location of the wing, but that's equally true for RWD cars. With FWD you're balancing the vehicle, as opposed to pushing the rear down for grip onto the driven wheels with RWD. If you're cornering at 100mph airflow doesn't give a hoot what wheels are driven, it only cares about playing silly buggers with dynamics. If you found that you couldn't steer at that speed, then something was massively wrong with your setup.

 

BTCC alone proves this:

<snip>

 

 

Don't know about you but I haven't driven a lot of touring cars on tracks lately. Again, they have complimenting front (and more importantly underbody) aero. But yeh, I'm not gonna argue further, I know you have a point, I have mine, all I'm saying is don't put a big gay wing on a stock Skoda Octavia and expect to still have any steering response or traction from the front wheels at 100mph.

 

@floydbax, the FTO was one that slipped by me, I never have driven one. I always wanted one, some say best FWD car ever. Well remembered. Gotta ask ourselves though, how much better would it have been if it was RWD?

Edited November 22, 2016 by Aashenfox

[Floydbax]

@floydbax, the FTO was one that slipped by me, I never have driven one. I always wanted one, some say best FWD car ever. Well remembered. Gotta ask ourselves though, how much better would it have been if it was RWD?

Or even 4WD? IDK, it was a hoot to drive. I remember being behind a Scooby on a mix of back and main roads wishing he'd get a move on, then when we were side by side at some lights he gave me a thumb's up and a big grin!! I didn't realise he must have been giving it some and couldn't lose me. (I realise he might just have been a poo driver ). Sadly many testers couldn't drive it properly and it got slated in reviews (similarly, the S2000), the testers couldn't adjust their driving styles to accommodate revving the nuts off these engines to exploit the power band. Still to my ears one of the best sounding engines. It also got a bit of a bad press because testers compared it against vehicles 10 years younger. .

[docwra]

To answer the original Q, on track, yes, eventually anyway. On the road, no.

Edited November 22, 2016 by docwra

[nowhereboy]

To answer the original Q, on track, yes, eventually anyway. On the road, no.

 

Exactly the same as my opinion!

[BobbyZ]

For me hot hatches (the only time FWD is acceptable IMO*) are a kind of niche product. They're fun for a while in their own way (sling it in then hard on the power), but I think that RWD is the best for a pure driving experience for a few objective reasons, and subjectively I think it feels the best.

 

*I've never driven an Integra Type-R

[Richf]

That's a HUGE statement covering a huge array of setups. I'll agree, under certain conditions...

 

1) It's a spoiler, not a wing

2) It's not at a high AOA

3) It's on a FWD hatchback, not a FWD sedan

 

If the circumstances are the opposite in any area... I.E It's a big gay wing, not just a little spoiler, it has an aggressive angle of attack generating significant downforce, and it's on the boot of a sedan behind the rear wheels, as opposed to on a hatch on top of the rear wheels, then you will not be able to steer at 100mph. I know this from personal experience (very scary). Of course, this does apply to rear wheel drive cars too...and also no argument that if you need the rear more planted, then a wing will give you that, regardless of driven wheels or size/shape of car.

How many times do you see an aggressively driven FWD car lifting a rear wheel on high speed corners? Now imagine if that car had a wing pushing the rear downwards, how much better balanced would it be?

 

Hatch, coupe, saloon, doesn't matter: What does matter is the angle and location of the wing, but that's equally true for RWD cars. With FWD you're balancing the vehicle, as opposed to pushing the rear down for grip onto the driven wheels with RWD. If you're cornering at 100mph airflow doesn't give a hoot what wheels are driven, it only cares about playing silly buggers with dynamics. If you found that you couldn't steer at that speed, then something was massively wrong with your setup.

 

BTCC alone proves this:

<snip>

 

 

Don't know about you but I haven't driven a lot of touring cars on tracks lately. Again, they have complimenting front (and more importantly underbody) aero. But yeh, I'm not gonna argue further, I know you have a point, I have mine, all I'm saying is don't put a big gay wing on a stock Skoda Octavia and expect to still have any steering response or traction from the front wheels at 100mph.

 

 

Not sure you do have a point at all , so a large wing reduces front grip and steering response on fwd cars but not rwd cars? What nonsense !

 

FWIW both my Octavia's I have owned had/have rear spoilers from the factory (and FWIW the record breaking 227mph Octavia also had a rear spoiler) yet have plenty of grip and steering at 100mph plus

 

The new Civic Type R comes with a massive wing as stock

[TT350]

My Focus ST is really fun over tight moorland lanes, b roads etc. The chassis is very capable and while 170bhp isn't a lot on an open flat motorway it's adequate for fun on b roads.

[NeilMH]

I must confess I rather like FWD cars, I think it must be me but the only RWD I found totally 100% predictable was a Caterham 7, assuming you have the right wheels and tyres and no lunatic has been let loose on the set up. The Elise was a bit like....hero,hero,hero....oops dead. The 350Z I found a good compromise but then that was offset by a feeling of the not inconsiderable weight hurtling along. I used to have a lot of fun in my old 145QV (flying bread van) body roll notwithstanding! You sort of grew into it. This might sound a bit naff but I think I'd get on with an MX5 or GT86 (despite power shortage). I think I just lack skill and don't want to work too hard at it. Oh and just remembered I had a 309gti "mild" tarmac rally car and that was rather jolly as well (the 309 had a longer wheelbase than the 205 which helped).

[BulletMagnet]

Had a JDM Honda Prelude once, the one with 2.2L VTEC and 4WS, was alright in corners

[Rock_Steady]

Had a JDM Honda Prelude once, the one with 2.2L VTEC and 4WS, was alright in corners

A mate of mine had one of these and said it was a bitch to park. Was that true for you or was he just shite at parking?

[Aashenfox]

My mother bought one of those 'ludes brand new. I was 12! lol. Great cars. I remember it looking really exotic in its time, my mum had taken me out to the car park to pick me up from school (boarding school, I was getting out for the first time in a couple of months, I remember the day well), and she turns to me and says 'guess which one is ours?', of course I looked around and pointed out the flashiest car I could see, yep, it was the prelude. Don't remember if she had any issues parking it, but my mum ain't normal, she's a petrolhead, has her advanced driving license. After that she had a TVR Chimaera, MR2s, A Celica GT onen of the first e46 330CIs, and now at 62 she just traded in her CBR 600 special edition for the new Triumph street jobbie, can't remember what it's called. Crazy mother.

[BulletMagnet]

Had a JDM Honda Prelude once, the one with 2.2L VTEC and 4WS, was alright in corners

A mate of mine had one of these and said it was a bitch to park. Was that true for you or was he just shite at parking?

If anything it made it a bit easier, so your mate is crap at parking

[shaunRS]

FWD gets a lot of hate, fair enough you can't drift it, they don't have the traction of awd in wet weather but to say they are not fun is a wrong. On track I ran rings round my dads 300bhp 350z (irn bru), on our north coast 500 tour a few months ago my front wheel drive did everything the rear drive guys did and not once did I feel it was anywhere near its limit.

[Ekona]

FWD gets a lot of hate, fair enough you can't drift it, they don't have the traction of awd in wet weather but to say they are not fun is a wrong. On track I ran rings round my dads 300bhp 350z (irn bru), on our north coast 500 tour a few months ago my front wheel drive did everything the rear drive guys did and not once did I feel it was anywhere near its limit.

See, that doesn't sound fun to me. I don't want to win at trackdays, I want to have a play and feel the car working beneath me. I don't want to nail it as fast as I can on the roads and not feel like I'm near the limits, as that either means I have no idea where the limits are (dangerous) or I need to substantially up the pace or pick straighter roads (not much fun either).

 

For a family car to do the shopping in, sure FWD is fine as it's cheap. For something to improve the driving experience, then the rear wheels have to be driven at a minimum.

[shaunRS]

FWD gets a lot of hate, fair enough you can't drift it, they don't have the traction of awd in wet weather but to say they are not fun is a wrong. On track I ran rings round my dads 300bhp 350z (irn bru), on our north coast 500 tour a few months ago my front wheel drive did everything the rear drive guys did and not once did I feel it was anywhere near its limit.

See, that doesn't sound fun to me. I don't want to win at trackdays, I want to have a play and feel the car working beneath me. I don't want to nail it as fast as I can on the roads and not feel like I'm near the limits, as that either means I have no idea where the limits are (dangerous) or I need to substantially up the pace or pick straighter roads (not much fun either).

 

For a family car to do the shopping in, sure FWD is fine as it's cheap. For something to improve the driving experience, then the rear wheels have to be driven at a minimum.

you can still win on track days and it being fun, my point is more people think fwd just under steer at the slight hint of a corner which is far from the case.

[Ekona]

I'd rather be slow in a 350 than fast in a FRS. I've driven some monstrous things on track, but nothing was as fun as my shitty old mk1 MX-5 that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, and going sideways round Anglesey in the glorious sunshine. No chance you're doing that in FWD.

 

Trouble is, FWD does understeer by default. That's just what it does. It does cheap engineering, it does bags of space in the boot, it does open interior because no propshaft, but it doesn't do big skids and slidey-slidey fun tiems.

 

 

I enjoyed our 182 while we had it, but I'd never want FWD as my only fun car. That'd be like only ever being able to eat a plain burger and never sample a Big Tasty.

[shaunRS]

Thats what makes the car community so great. Well all like different things. For me my car is stupidity quick, handles great, looks aggressive and you can get 4 adults in it and set out golf clubs in the boot. Horses for courses.