coldel Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Ha Doc! I will have to double think my posts in future and get back on the other side of the debating table, even if it means disagreeing with myself Yes echo the above, that I heard so many things in the press and on forums about it being amazing that when I watched it thought it was pretty average. What was so amazing about spending an hour chatting about the three hypercars and doing a few limited tests and doing a test on an M2 on the new track. I have seens dozens of you tube videos on reviews of hypercars etc. It was pretty much same as always, I think there were some other elements at play here: 1. There are sections of the media and public that would love this regardless of what they turned out 2. There is a story here to be had for sections of the media i.e. Clarkson beats BBC, Amazon, etc. 3. Sheer amount of money being spent on this (circa £160m?) I went in with an open mind, but just reminded me of an average Top Gear episode from days past. I guess it is the first episode so you get a fair amount of 'setting up' of the programme to sit through which is not so entertaining i.e. this is the tent, it will do this...etc. What is good is that this and the new Top Gear are set up differently and thats what I was hoping I would see. So with GT you get the scripted foolery of Clarksons lot which in moments can be funny, on TG you get insight from the likes of Chris Harris - the last few episodes of TG I thought were much better than this first episode of GT. Also TG has stretched into online delivery as well as TV format for a different audience. So we are now nicely awash with car related TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The funny parts weren't (especially the american driver, didn't even smile through that whole bit, was just thinking, what the hell have they put a redneck in a modern beamer for? And I'm not a BMW fan either), but the car bits were mostly good. I'm dreading the episodes without cars (2 and 8), if they contain more poor, out of context jokes, delivered badly, I may be turned off. Basically, I'm sorry to say that in every area that they deviated from the old format, they failed to entertain. Here's to improvements in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think you can take all of that with a pinch of salt. I've seen the same test that Chris Harris did on the same circuit where the P1 was quicker using the same tyres. I've also seen another test where the La Ferrari was quickest of the 3 around another track... deeply impressive bits of kit. I believe they will "reveal" that the P1 was actually faster, they have said otherwise so that they can run with the joke. If this is true then its pretty poor form TBH as the joke isnt actually that funny, we already know that he demolished his house to build another one. I think youve summed it up nicely Col, but the bit I cant get is the number of people that regularly slagged it being the same old same old that are now elated about GT ...... I never missed the old TG and I doubt Ill miss an episode of GT, but Id be hard pushed to say which I preferred, at least so far. I still think that given a series or two, BBC TG will actually emerge as the best for petrolheads, GT will become the Clarkson Hammond and May show with little to no content at all, and the Classic Car Show and Jay Leno's garage will be (quite correctly) revered for actually doing something worthwhile. Seriously, watch both of those and tell me that GT was brilliant ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 So many people laid their view of new TG being poor at Evans door, now he is gone, I wonder if they will view the next series differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just something to note, not saying your implying this doc are but i have seen people bring up the P1 time was fake because his house got knocked down a few months back, but people seem to think this has been filmed like Topgear a week in advance episode 1 and 2 were shot months ago for GT, Do i think the fabricated it to loose, no. Do i think that they had more than 1 scenario filmed that would give the others opportunity to destroy the house, absolutely. One way or another his house was getting taken down, But its a scripted show we surely all know this by now. To be honest the best part of the episode 1 was the intro, but having said that i never found the episodes of putting super cars up against each other that interesting, as much as i love some sideways action 40 minutes of the same 3 cars doing the same thing gets boring. They only worked when they went from city to city doing challenges. episodes like the track toy one at donnington bored the crap out of me. Im also interested to see how they do the non car episodes as Topgear was a Car show but the Grand Tour can we be what it wants so might find episode 2 and 8 are the best in the series for not having cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) So many people laid their view of new TG being poor at Evans door, now he is gone, I wonder if they will view the next series differently? If they had changed the format so it wasnt just the old tg with different presenters probably, but if you want to watch idiots messing around with cars and doing "challenges" i am afraid imho, The Grand Tour will be the one to watch. Tg didnt need a refresh, ratings where massive like the programme or not, but at the point the "idiots" were gone they had to switch it up as for the people that enjoyed the old tg, it wasnt for the cars, it was for JC, RH and JM interaction (again like it or not) and with people like Chris Harris on board i really think they missed a trick to appeal to petrol heads as a proper car show, not CE and MLB driving reliants to wherever they went or Ken Block tearing it up through London, however much i enjoyed that. Edited November 21, 2016 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think new TG needs some personality and time for it to gel - old TG had the same layout, presenters who spent 15 years perfecting their art for that particular show (and lets face it when they are on their own in other shows they are no where near as good). New TG has to find its appeal, I agree I don't think its quite got there yet. Sabine and CH are much better drivers (and better at talking cars) than any of Clarkson etc. they need to make more of that and shape a show around the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygranite Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 i thought was ok ,watched on youtube skipped the celeb bit myself,, not going to pay for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Having watching episode one, you would have to be an absolute Clarkson lover to subscribe. It might get better, but it was an average programme in my view as posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I think new TG needs some personality and time for it to gel - old TG had the same layout, presenters who spent 15 years perfecting their art for that particular show (and lets face it when they are on their own in other shows they are no where near as good). New TG has to find its appeal, I agree I don't think its quite got there yet. Sabine and CH are much better drivers (and better at talking cars) than any of Clarkson etc. they need to make more of that and shape a show around the people. Having watching episode one, you would have to be an absolute Clarkson lover to subscribe. It might get better, but it was an average programme in my view as posted above. I agree on both counts, but, that was the complaint you (along with others) made about the original format, old and stale, same old etc but thats exactly what they churned out with CE and you thought it was good, a small feature here or there with CH didnt change the format, the beeb banked on CE pulling in the numbers as an entertainer, he didnt. Of course you will say people wanted it to fail, first episode figures were good ish, seems to me people gave it a chance, but it was the package that was missing and if you dont like JC, you were never going to like the grand tour, its tg with a different name, it was always going to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Given that GT has seven times the budget of TG, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have expected something a bit different, but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I actually thought the first few episodes of new TG were pretty average too, the last few though were so much better, there felt a shift away from the scripted stuff Clarkson does and I thought pulling CE away from it really helped and found I really enjoyed CH talking to us about cars in a more informed way instead of Clarkson loving the 4C, Hammond loving the 911 even if they turned one out made of paper etc. I find Sabine just amazing, somewhat ironically in high powered cars you get Hammond 'screaming like a girl' but put a girl in one and she laughs her head off as she takes it way beyond what Hammond would 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Agreed, the few TG episodes were much more enjoyable than the first ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy78 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Given that GT has seven times the budget of TG, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have expected something a bit different, but there you go. We've only seen one offering so far, but I can't see it being drastically different from TG - not with the 3 presenters and producer. The majority of people, myself included, wanted TGT to be a bling Top Gear and that's kind of what we got from the first episode. I suspect, they will gradually bring any planned changes in slowly as to not upset the natives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Given that GT has seven times the budget of TG, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have expected something a bit different, but there you go. It is different, no stig, no star in a reasonable priced car, new track, new location on a weekly basis and if your talking about the "format", why would it be different, it attracted huge viewer ratings, you may have seen there was a bit of a fuss about the trio leaving. Edited November 22, 2016 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 They have a racing driver to time cars. They have a race track. They have celebs (at least TG managed to interview theirs ). This is why I'll give it another shot, as the different location thing and lack of cars may make it into something different. Put it another way, would you expect a car costing seven times as much to be exactly the same as before, or better? I'd be pi**ed if my Micra had the same performance as a GT-R! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I'd be pi**ed if my Micra had the same performance as a GT-R! Liberty Walk need to build a widebody GT-R engined Micra, like NOW....for no other reason than "Just cos..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Well of course you will see it like that because you dont want to see it any other way, just like enjoying the new tg because it had different presenters, the format was basically the same (which you said was dull and stale) apart from a few smatterings, same track, same stig, same star in a car, same made up challenges, except a loud shouty person at the helm. So tgt is a whole lot newer than old tg for those very reasons and that is the topic, nothing to do with the shows and their formats, its just down to personal preference of presenters, if you didnt like the old tg you wont like the new, it was and is a winning formula because of the "whole" package. Budget is irrelevant, given your view its like saying, a track day at Laguna Seca or Yas Marina should be better than a track day at Spa, because it will cost you more to go to Laguna or Yas. How much do you honestly think its going to cost to move venue each show, the logistically costs are scary. I have no idea why you keep on about it being different, people didnt want different, hence tgt, sadly the world doesnt revolve around what Ekona wants to see Edited November 22, 2016 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Hang on, I'm not sure what your issue is here. I ENJOYED WATCHING TGT. I ALSO ENJOYED WATCHING TG. It was old TG I didn't like. I get they had to play it safe, I'm also disappointed they didn't take a risk and try something fresh. All this nonsense about me not liking new TG or TGT is rubbish, I've no idea where you've got that from. There's bits of both that I don't like, but there's bits I enjoyed very much. Budget definitely isn't irrelevant, it's key to the whole thing. If you're going to produce the same quality content, then why bother travelling anywhere and spending millions more? Like I said, I'm looking forward to the one this week with no cars, that could be genuinely interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I suspect, they will gradually bring any planned changes in slowly as to not upset the natives. Unless they all came out, demanded an end to Brexit and banned combustion engine vehicles, all at once - there's nothing they could do to upset the Disciples Of Clakrson PBUH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 All this nonsense about me not liking new TG or TGT is rubbish, you have openly said in the past Topgear is @*!# 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 I actually thought the first few episodes of new TG were pretty average too, the last few though were so much better, there felt a shift away from the scripted stuff Clarkson does and I thought pulling CE away from it really helped and found I really enjoyed CH talking to us about cars in a more informed way instead of Clarkson loving the 4C, Hammond loving the 911 even if they turned one out made of paper etc. I find Sabine just amazing, somewhat ironically in high powered cars you get Hammond 'screaming like a girl' but put a girl in one and she laughs her head off as she takes it way beyond what Hammond would Problem is Harris is great for the petrol head (Although he is boring in his delivery and expression imo) talking facts and figures but the mass public who made up topgears numbers couldnt give a stuff about the ZF gearbox in a BMW M135i etc they just want to see people doing dumb stuff and laughing at each others. Same with Sabine she can drive but the corvette vs viper film was horrific from a presenter stand point infact did she do anything other than that i cant recall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Preferred new TG, even with ginger minge, to TGT I'm sorry to say. Perhaps that's cos I'm in it for the cars and while I enjoy the banter of the trio, it's really car reviews I want to see, TGT disappointed me in this aspect. I would have liked to know more about he BMW rather than see some confederate plank drive it round a track while telling us nothing of interest except that he's obviously had too much sex with his immediate family members. Edited November 22, 2016 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I actually thought the first few episodes of new TG were pretty average too, the last few though were so much better, there felt a shift away from the scripted stuff Clarkson does and I thought pulling CE away from it really helped and found I really enjoyed CH talking to us about cars in a more informed way instead of Clarkson loving the 4C, Hammond loving the 911 even if they turned one out made of paper etc. I find Sabine just amazing, somewhat ironically in high powered cars you get Hammond 'screaming like a girl' but put a girl in one and she laughs her head off as she takes it way beyond what Hammond would Problem is Harris is great for the petrol head (Although he is boring in his delivery and expression imo) talking facts and figures but the mass public who made up topgears numbers couldnt give a stuff about the ZF gearbox in a BMW M135i etc they just want to see people doing dumb stuff and laughing at each others. Same with Sabine she can drive but the corvette vs viper film was horrific from a presenter stand point infact did she do anything other than that i cant recall? I totally agree, but in terms of what "I" like I do not like Clarkson and co reading jokes off a board and providing high level info on cars when there is a fair amount more to it than that. I like a splattering of entertainment on the show, but also like the idea I can learn something also, the online programme after new TG was great for this. GT doesn't offer that at all but its not meant to. Personally, I have found after many years of listening to Clarkson and co that I have tired of the same jokes etc. and felt ready to move on. New TG seems to be trying to keep some level of entertainment and put a bit more intelligence into the programme which we have all seen is not an easy thing to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 ...and if I want an hour of entertainment, sod Clarkson, on goes Only Fools and Horses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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