England v Scotland

[LRF4N]

Ready to see us getting pumped?

[Stutopia]

Someone's gonna lose to an awful team, not sure if it'll be England or Scotland though

[Irn Bru]

It'll be nothing out of the ordinary for us..........we're $hite and have been since the days after KK DM and JJ. Of coarse the managers the SFA have chosen has been dire too

Edited November 11, 2016 by Irn Bru

[JetSet]

I find it very sad that Scotland no longer produces players of the class of Souness, Dalglish, Bremner, Lorimar, Jordan, Law plus many, many more and hasn't done so for donkeys years. I don't know what's gone wrong as Scotland has some great Athletes, Swimmers, Golfers and Andy Murray , this at a time when Wales enjoyed great success at Euro 2016. You would expect England to be too strong for Scotland but in a one off game like this you never know.

 

Pete

[-G-]

Investment, Pete. That's the simple truth of it. Hardly any money spent on the game in Scotland compared with England/Wales. I also remember Souness being the first manager to flood the Rangers ranks with English players - basically buying the Scottish Cup with mercenary means.

 

1987 was the start of the decline of Scottish Football.

[The G Man]

I find it very sad that Scotland no longer produces players of the class of Souness, Dalglish, Bremner, Lorimar, Jordan, Law plus many, many more and hasn't done so for donkeys years. I don't know what's gone wrong as Scotland has some great Athletes, Swimmers, Golfers and Andy Murray , this at a time when Wales enjoyed great success at Euro 2016. You would expect England to be too strong for Scotland but in a one off game like this you never know.

 

Pete

 

The players you mention came from a very different economic and social era, it was the pit or success at football. This was a time when there was ZERO investment in sport, far less football, so investment is not the cause.

 

These players were from a generation that, if you got a Mitre size 5 for Crimbo, you were everyone's best mate , we would kick that ball about until it disintegrated, then it was back to playing football with a worn out tennis ball and everyone was out in the street playing football, not on social media or playstations, the days when a Wimpey was an exotic, expensive take away

[The G Man]

, 1987 was the start of the decline of Scottish Football.

 

Happened way before that, the teachers strikes of the late '70s early '80s and the refusal of them to run school football in the evenings and at weekends (unpaid mind), saw a sharp decline in youngsters playing the sport.

 

Don't get me started about the PlayStation generation:lol:

 

You are partly right about the mercenary effect, it's happening in England now, global brand though, the premiership, Scottish football will never be that!

Edited November 11, 2016 by The G Man

[JetSet]

I find it very sad that Scotland no longer produces players of the class of Souness, Dalglish, Bremner, Lorimar, Jordan, Law plus many, many more and hasn't done so for donkeys years. I don't know what's gone wrong as Scotland has some great Athletes, Swimmers, Golfers and Andy Murray , this at a time when Wales enjoyed great success at Euro 2016. You would expect England to be too strong for Scotland but in a one off game like this you never know.

 

Pete

 

The players you mention came from a very different economic and social era, it was the pit or success at football. This was a time when there was ZERO investment in sport, far less football, so investment is not the cause.

 

These players were from a generation that, if you got a Mitre size 5 for Crimbo, you were everyone's best mate , we would kick that ball about until it disintegrated, then it was back to playing football with a worn out tennis ball and everyone was out in the street playing football, not on social media or playstations, the days when a Wimpey was an exotic, expensive take away

 

Point taken, you would have thought that the vast wealth in the game these days would be attractive but apparently not, the talent is there but it just isn't being exploited.

 

Pete

[coldel]

Think the score didnt really reflect the game - Scotland should have had it back at 1-1

 

Just how poor England are at the moment, picking the names as usual, blinkered view that Lallana is MoM, Stones is a liability, so many bang average performances tonight. But our obsession with names for big clubs over better players just carries on year after year.

[LRF4N]

About time my prediction was right

 

if you're gonna do that may as well do it wearing pink...

[scobie140]

Worrying that that's our best 4 defenders and one of them is actually a left mid playing right back

[Zeezeebaba]

The Germans had the right idea some years back. As their successful club players aged themselves out of the team the German FA basically said "forget the next four years we won't be as competitive due to bringing a new squad through". No expectations were metered out by the fans and the youngsters were allowed to bond and play regularly together without the pressure associated with national duty and public expectation.

When the four years were up they won the world cup. Mind you even a bad German team reaches the quarters or semis.

 

I still think building up the younger players from the youth teams up is the way to go, yes there is nothing wrong with a few older experienced play makers in the side to motivate but just picking someone based on league success is meaningless if their particular skill set doesn't match the rest of the team.

[LRF4N]

For me Scottish football was always on the way down but it died a few years ago when things went pear shaped for rangers. Especially at club level

 

Last night the score might not have reflected the match but the gulf in quality and fitness between the teams was clear

 

When England broke they had a certain finesse, Scotland created chances but they scrambled their way through

 

I'm younger than g man and irn bru (not being cheeky.....well maybe a wee bit lol) so I didn't witness the good old days of Joe Jordan etc. But when I have seen Scottish teams do well in Europe it's been mainly with foreign players

 

I think we will be minnows for a good while yet, we always get optimistic when qualifying groups are drawn but we always drop points against smaller teams. This campaign was no different

[The G Man]

Celtic won the European cup with 11 players who were all born and bred in a 20 mile radius of Parkhead, Rangers won the old Cup Winners cup with 11 Scottish players on the field, Aberdeen won the same competition with 11 Scottish players, Dundee Utd got to the final of the old UEAFA cup with one Fin and 10 Scots.

 

There is no way that Scottish teams in Europe were better with foreign players, sorry mate, being old has its advantages

[coldel]

I would argue though that the standard of clubs outside the usual UK Spain Italy Germany have vastly improved and competitions in Europe are so much tougher. Also Barack when Scottish teams were successful in Europe the opposition didn't have foreign built teams either except the odd superstar at Real. All teams have moved with the times, investment just hit a ceiling in Scotland whilst other countries continue to climb.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The G Man]

I would argue though that the standard of clubs outside the usual UK Spain Italy Germany have vastly improved and competitions in Europe are so much tougher. Also Barack when Scottish teams were successful in Europe the opposition didn't have foreign built teams either except the odd superstar at Real. All teams have moved with the times, investment just hit a ceiling in Scotland whilst other countries continue to climb.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

My point was that, all things equal, Scotland had much more success in Europe, than back when, or even now we have a glut of substandard players.

 

Dennis Law, went to Torino in the sixties! So Real, weren't the only ones 'importing' superstars, for £200 a week

[Irn Bru]

About time my prediction was right

 

if you're gonna do that may as well do it wearing pink...

Finally...... that's the reason............ever since we stopped wearing blue strips we've gotten $hitter an $hitter every game.I blame the English gent in charge of the SFA for this.........anyways that's what Sturgeon reckons and I'm with her !!!!!!

[ZMANALEX]

Celtic won the European cup with 11 players who were all born and bred in a 20 mile radius of Parkhead, Rangers won the old Cup Winners cup with 11 Scottish players on the field, Aberdeen won the same competition with 11 Scottish players, Dundee Utd got to the final of the old UEAFA cup with one Fin and 10 Scots.

 

There is no way that Scottish teams in Europe were better with foreign players, sorry mate, being old has its advantages

 

This ^^^^ and I was in Gothenburg on the 11th May 1983 when the Dons beat Real Madrid 2-1 to lift the European Cup Winners Cup and also witnessed The Dons beat Bayern Munich the same year to lift the Super Cup.

 

Oh how times have changed since I was a loon. :(

[LRF4N]

Celtic won the European cup with 11 players who were all born and bred in a 20 mile radius of Parkhead, Rangers won the old Cup Winners cup with 11 Scottish players on the field, Aberdeen won the same competition with 11 Scottish players, Dundee Utd got to the final of the old UEAFA cup with one Fin and 10 Scots.

 

There is no way that Scottish teams in Europe were better with foreign players, sorry mate, being old has its advantages

 

I was referring to the days of Advocaat and O'Neill when the old firm gave some big teams a scare in the champions league

 

I was referring to recent times not the good old days that I didn't witness

 

I'm not grey like you remember

[The G Man]

Celtic won the European cup with 11 players who were all born and bred in a 20 mile radius of Parkhead, Rangers won the old Cup Winners cup with 11 Scottish players on the field, Aberdeen won the same competition with 11 Scottish players, Dundee Utd got to the final of the old UEAFA cup with one Fin and 10 Scots.

 

There is no way that Scottish teams in Europe were better with foreign players, sorry mate, being old has its advantages

 

I was referring to the days of Advocaat and O'Neill when the old firm gave some big teams a scare in the champions league

 

I was referring to recent times not the good old days that I didn't witness

 

I'm not grey like you remember

 

I might be grey, but that is backed up with grey matter, not like you remember

 

WTF did Advocaat or O'Neil win in Europe? Not even a semi final amongst them, or quarter final, O'Neil got a MBE/OBE for winning @uck all

 

Show me the evidence of their success in Europe in 'recent' times

[LRF4N]

Talk about going off the point....

 

I didn't say they lifted any trophies did I?

 

I'm saying the standard of Scottish players has been crap. Anytime the old firm made an impression in Europe it was with foreign players

 

The teams I'm talking about didn't lift any trophies but the standard of football they played puts the current old firm to shame

 

[scobie140]

Celtic won the European cup with 11 players who were all born and bred in a 20 mile radius of Parkhead, Rangers won the old Cup Winners cup with 11 Scottish players on the field, Aberdeen won the same competition with 11 Scottish players, Dundee Utd got to the final of the old UEAFA cup with one Fin and 10 Scots.

 

There is no way that Scottish teams in Europe were better with foreign players, sorry mate, being old has its advantages

 

I was referring to the days of Advocaat and O'Neill when the old firm gave some big teams a scare in the champions league

 

I was referring to recent times not the good old days that I didn't witness

 

I'm not grey like you remember

 

I might be grey, but that is backed up with grey matter, not like you remember

 

WTF did Advocaat or O'Neil win in Europe? Not even a semi final amongst them, or quarter final, O'Neil got a MBE/OBE for winning @uck all

 

Show me the evidence of their success in Europe in 'recent' times

O'Neil got to the final of the EUFA cup final 2003

[Stutopia]

Reasons for relative collapses in both country's teams asides. I was just a fresh face teenager in Euro '96, both the England and Scotland sides of that summer 20 years ago, would've trounced their current counterparts IMO.

 

 

For me, the 90s was the era which had a great blend of football still having hard b*****ds (Pearce, Hendry) but they couldn't just kick lumps out of the technically gifted (Collins, Gascoigne), with a few players that did a bit of both (McCall, Ince).

[coldel]

It was the England team of 90 that was really something special. The team above has some standout players like Seaman in goal, Shearer up front possibly one of the best strikers ever to pull on an England shirt. But in the 90 team at Italia, a breakthrough Gazza and Platt, Lineker one of the worlds best goal poachers, Waddle, Butcher at the back - actually our weakest link in that team was Shilton in goal, Robson stuck with him a couple of years just too long in my view.

 

Stuart McCall was a legend, love this video, didn't spill a drop!

 

[Stutopia]

McCall was at Sheffield United, towards the end of his playing career, when I was living in Sheffield and a regular at the Lane. Even when he couldn't run around anymore his composure and passing were superb, he was a different gear at that level and brilliant to watch for anyone who enjoys football from a technical perspective.