Banz Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Went for a convoy drive yesterday. Tried to keep up with the Carrera 4S and TTs on the back roads. When I drop from 3rd or 4th to 2nd gear then I exit the corner and floor it, the slip light will start flashing and the power drops out a few times. I only open full throttle when my wheels are aligned and going straight. So I can't see why it would trigger the traction control. I don't hear any wheel spinning and it's not like I'm going around the bend with full throttle. I'm not comfortable enough to turn off the TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 You're spinning the wheels, or at least trying to. Too much throttle when conditions don't allow it is the cause mate, just be a little less keen on the gas pedal Ironically turning the TCS off will probably solve it, as the wheels will only slip for a fraction before finding grip again. It's why I used to turn it off on my old 350 (and do on the 645), as I could modulate the pedal myself smoother than having the damn ECU cut power or brake a wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 full throttle in second gear is quite a nippy thing, I've had the tcs come on for less than that before. usual queries about tyres and pressures, presuming the roads were smooth and dry? also, you say waiting till the wheels were straight, were you literally driving through the bend off throttle, then as soon as the wheels are straight, flooring it? normal technique would be to corner on a balanced throttle, then smoothly feed in the power as you unwind the steering lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 You're spinning the wheels, or at least trying to. Too much throttle when conditions don't allow it is the cause mate, just be a little less keen on the gas pedal But after coming out of a bend, I was probably doing 20-30mph. So I didn't think full throttle would cause it to spin the wheel. But you're right, if I do less gas pedal. It would't trigger the TC. I just thought maybe because I was either bad at my gear or clutch. If I try and floor it at 3rd gear at 20-30mph. I would wouldn't be able to keep up with the convoy. full throttle in second gear is quite a nippy thing, I've had the tcs come on for less than that before. usual queries about tyres and pressures, presuming the roads were smooth and dry? also, you say waiting till the wheels were straight, were you literally driving through the bend off throttle, then as soon as the wheels are straight, flooring it? normal technique would be to corner on a balanced throttle, then smoothly feed in the power as you unwind the steering lock. It was sunny and dry and I believe the tyres have warmed up. I think I triggered the TC about 2-3 times as the other cars have started to accelerate faster after the bends. I tend to drive through most bend off throttle. As soon as I come out, I floor it. Since I don't know the roads at all. I enter the bend without changing gear and hover my feet over the brakes. Then when I see the exit, I drop to either 2nd or 3rd depending on the speed. I'm pretty sure that is the worst way of driving a car. Been told to enter the bend at the right gear, but I got no idea what gear to put it into as I don't know the roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave6188 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 **** you need to learn how to drive never hover over the brakes mid corner, if you hit them the car will just spin !!! Brake before the corner get it into the right gear and keep a smooth throttle throughout the bend feeding in more throttle as your exiting the bend and gaining more grip. And for the life of me take the TCS off the LSD gives you plenty of feel to know when to lift slightly if the car is going to oversteer. Go and do a trackday that's your best bet you will learn @*!# loads from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Don't think of it as using less gas, it's more about being progressive with it. Don't slam it down, feed it in slowly and smoothly. Sounds to me like you need to work on your observation, as the road itself will give you many clues as to what speed to enter a corner which in turn tells you what gear. It's actually better on roads you don't know, as then you don't suffer from over confidence and then find a bus parked in the middle of what you thought was a 50mph corner. Gear selection is determined by speed, so on a corner that's the entry speed not the exit one (for 99% of road driving). If you enter at 30mph then 2nd would be fine if you're on a blat, so you can prepare for that easy enough. Brakes first, then gear selection, then balance throttle to settle the car, and only then would you start turning the wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I think I know where these bad habits came from. Entering bends without getting into the right gear and hovering my feet on the brakes. I'm guessing a lot of it came from the time when I was learning from a bad driver. It's quite hard to change bad habits after driving like that for such a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Nothing 'wrong' with hovering above the brakes as such (indeed, I do it occasionally if I feel like I've misjudged a corner with excessive entry speed or it suddenly tightens), it's how you intend to apply them that can cause the issues. Even the best TCS in the world isn't going to save you if you stamp on them mid-corner. Not that you've said you do/would, of course! On the odd occasion when you get it wrong, hovering and feathering the brakes is fine. If you're doing it every single time though, then that's where you're definitely going to have to change that habit. Just another skill to learn when driving, all part of the fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) something else to consider - how aggressively are you downshifting on corner exit, and are you rev matching? if you're coming into a corner in 4th gear, driving through the corner in 4th and looking to change down to 3rd or 2nd on the exit you'll need to bring the revs up quite considerably before you let the clutch out otherwise you'll shock the driveline and risk locking the rear wheels. you may want to read up on heel and toe as well as it helps immensely with fast driving, but requires a lot of practice. with fast driving I always find smoothness is the key - you don't want to be stamping on the throttle or the brakes, or lurching at the steering wheel - you want smooth controlled inputs, its all about keeping the car settled. Edited August 15, 2016 by brillomaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 IIRC you were quite handy at not having the car settled at all at Bedford that one time... It's a good point though, it might actually be the rear wheels locking up at high revs as much as aggressive gas pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I've read the toe and heel technique but I'm too early for that. I'm not rev matching and only been driving a manual car for two months. I've got a lot to learn. All I'm doing now is accelerating fast in a straight line and then crawl through the bends. Then I floor it again when I exit. It does sound like it might be the rear wheels locking up at high revs. Because I've done harder acceleration in 2nd gear and never tripped the TC. I guess I would have to pay attention to it more in my next drive. I don't drive that aggressively on my own, only when I'm following a convoy. As I don't want to run the risk of going around a bend and hitting something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltzinblack Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have to say it is very nice to hear someone who is honest about their ability and who clearly drives with due regard to it on the road and is willing to learn. Far, FAR too many people (and especially people of my younger generation) who are cocky and stupid and cause problems ruining it for the rest of us. I was also not that confident in my ability when I first got the Zed and took me a while to be comfortable with a heavy, torquey, RWD car with the agricultural controls the Zed has. If at any point you feel the urge to spend money on stuff to make the car faster, go and do some driver training days or go on a trackday with a friend/willing member from here who can give you a few pointers. I have done both and they were the best things I've ever done to become smoother and faster. Who knows, you might even catch your mates in the Carrera and the TT after that Unless they are handy drivers themselves... 4 years later and I had the honour of Ekona telling me he actually broke into a sweat following me. Admittedly he was 300kg and 50bhp down on me, but I am still happy with it! I'm now on a new learning curve of my own, experienced the wonders of lift-off oversteer on a wet roundabout the other day in my little turbocharged go-kart PS... if you are managing to downshift into 2nd in a Zed without rev-matching you must have guns of steel! The 'boxes in Zeds I've driven would just give a big fat nope if I tried that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) Thanks! I'm in my mid 30's now, I don't think the car would still be in one piece if I had bought it when I was in my 20's. Did go on a drive with Ekona and he just disappears at every bend as I crawl through them lol. I would go on track if I can, but unfortunately I'm parting with the car soon and also I can't get a reasonable insurance cover to go on track with. I might just get a driver training day and go with their car rather than my own. Edited August 15, 2016 by Banz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave6188 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 When I first started driving RWD cars my Mrs bought me a drift day with a company called L2D (Learn 2 Drift) it was good as you learnt how to control what is essentially an out of control vehicle, then I done a few trackdays. Experience is everything, I don't use track insurance but just stay cautious around other drivers instead. You can't buy a Z and not do a trackday in it they are a proper weapon on track if set up correctly even standard ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 + 1 for a learn to drift day. Not sure why but I picked it up really quickly, sounds daft really but after playing games like Forza for years it just came naturally. Felt like I'd already done it before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) I'm looking into learn 2 drift day. They got two venues close to me, Rockingham and Essex. I was thinking of doing Half day / 3hr Intensive 1-2-1 Session£285.00 If it is using their car, then I don't need to worry about getting insurance on my own car. Edited August 17, 2016 by Banz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 It will be money well spent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'm looking into learn 2 drift day. They got two venues close to me, Rockingham and Essex. I was thinking of doing Half day / 3hr Intensive 1-2-1 Session£285.00 If it is using their car, then I don't need to worry about getting insurance on my own car. https://booking.bookinghound.com/learn2drift If it's this one, then it looks like it is using your own car. I'm interested but would worry about going through tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 It is that one. But it says. this is all inclusive with fuel / tyres and light refreshments, using an L2D car for training.) – Bring a change of underwear & Wear your brave hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Oh okay, the first line is misleading "It's your car, it's your instructor" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banz Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yeah exactly, I'll call them first and check. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereboy Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Learn to drift use their own cars... You will most likely be in a drift battered 200sx, or possibly a R33GTST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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