GodISmE Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I have to revise my plan now after a bit more reading. I was going to install resonated test pipes and build a custom cat back but I'm not sure about it now. The long tube headers are obviously the best option for max power but 1300$ for PPE ! Ouch On the other head, they will produce more gains than upgraded cams for 1000$. Decisions, decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The long tubes work in conjunction optimally with certain cams, it's not just slinging it on and it'll magically make claimed power. You might be able to use normal 'shorties' on the manifold\headers, save £800 and only be 1-5bhp down in comparison. Depends on your budget. I'm trying to learn this stuff now, fundamentally so I don't pee money up the wall by not optimising components. You have to have a goal of what you want to achieve, then build around it. Obviously lot's of people have done this already which takes the guess work out of it luckily. You'll quickly see why most people that want power go with FI. I'm not doing it solely for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 On the other head, they will produce more gains than upgraded cams for 1000$. Decisions, decisions... I think the manifolds will give the single most gain, the problem with doing any sort of modifying is you just move to the next weakest link, or restriction as is the case with the n/a route. So unless you're ready to do a few more bits then you might feel the price doesn't warrant the cost, that said if PPE's claims of 20bhp gain on a stock engine are true then they are a bargain and everyone should buy a set. The other thing to note is the PPE's did not fit with the heads in place! They may fit with the cross member out but I cant confirm that......just so you're aware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just a little update while I wait for the heads to come back The final drive is all swapped out with complete new bearing, seals etc and all tightened to correct bearing preloads (not the work of a second), luckily no reshimming was required, the mesh pattern, backlash etc were all in tolerance. Now just waiting to seal up the pumpkin again, fill with oil and get the diff mounted in the car. Fuel pump has been located and replaced with Walbro 255 pump. Not exactly a straight swap, wiring plugs straight in but the pump itself is slightly longer meaning you have to faf with the bottom mounting clip to locate again and keep it securely mounted in place. Also carried out mods to the swirl jet and factory regulator orifices as documented here host.cj-motorsports.com/pdf/350z%20Fuel%20Pump.pdf Installed the billett oil pump gears. Really nice work from Boundary Pumps in the states. Straight swap 10min job (when the engine is apart that is) This mod really was a just in case thing, for the sake of a couple of hundred quid I'm adding reliability and strength to protect thousands of £'s worth of engine so a no brainer. The factory gears do actually look pretty good but I don't wanna find out their limits myself http://www.boundarypumps.com/nissan/ Thought I'd make a start wrapping the manifolds, I've used DEI titanium wrap and am using Goodridge 1mm lockwire to hold it all together. I didn't have much left from a 2"x50' roll so only have one done for now! This job was a pig, its not difficult just a pig, takes patients and hours to slowly work round and then securing it all after but I'm happy with the result and not looking forward to doing the other one! And that is all, other than the horrible but very important task of cleaning off all the tons of silicone sealant that hold this engine timing covers and sump on ready for reassembling it all with tons of fresh silicone sealant!! One thing I was happy to see was after all the pics and horror stories about the oil gallery gaskets that seem to trouble the vq35hr engine mine were in perfect condition after 8 years and 28k miles.................they're being replaced with the new reinforced gaskets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Butcher, did you get the stepped up PPE long tube headers with the merge collector for $1600? Do you guys know how much more power the PPE headers add compared to decats? Shorties would add 10hp (confirmed on my350z.com), long tubes would add 20hp but I don't know what the difference would be between long tubes and decats? If decats add around 10hp then together with short heads isn't this the same gain as with long tubes but for half the price?! PS. My oil gallery gaskets are blown for sure - less than 15psi at idle! I need to fix this before I hit the track for the first time this season. Yours look like the upgraded ones. Edited March 5, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Honestly on a completely standard engine I don't think its worth doing the PPE's at all as a single mod over what you're gonna get from just decats, they produce their power at higher revs and with the rest left stock these engines fall on their face at 6500-6800rpm so you're not going to be in the area of the rev range where the PPE's will make the difference. Lifted from a post Mark@Abbey made regarding UpRev stages: "Stage 3 With Berks De-cats These car with the stage 3 conversion see nearly 290 hub bhp up from around 265/270bhp for a stock car" and here's my dyno sheet from when I first got this car then fitted with K&N drop in filters and Motordyne ART (decat) pipes. Before UpRev 279HP, showing 9-14HP gain over stock figure from Abbey (from decats). After UpRev 293HP so a further 14HP gain, making total over stock of 23-28HP matching the 26+HP gain that PPE claim in this link http://www.ppeengine...nissan/350Z.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Ok, got it now. It definitely makes more sense with upgraded cams and it's then more a matter of looking at the power/torque curve rather than just pure hp gains. I can see why you're doing it all at once now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Butcher, did you get the stepped up PPE long tube headers with the merge collector for $1600? PS. My oil gallery gaskets are blown for sure - less than 15psi at idle! I need to fix this before I hit the track for the first time this season. Yours look like the upgraded ones. I ordered mine with the parallel merge collectors which add a bit more $$. Paul at PPE was a really top guy to deal with had them made and shipped on time no problem so if you did want them then I'd recommend going direct to them and definitely get those gaskets sorted out!! Not sure they were the uprated ones, very flimsy paper and new ones feel much stiffer reinforced but either way its having new ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) I used Tardis on a MF cloth to help remove the silicone sealant last week for my oil pan spacer (and a dremel for half of the job with a soft wire brush, until it died ) Also regarding the Long tubes/Shorties - from what I gather from FBT on here is that it's more to do with gas turbulence/flow as I was completely stumped as to why there would be a difference between decat+shorties vs long tubes. As I mentioned before, is it worth you spending over double the price for long tubes and a few more ponies ? If I can, I will but funds permitting and it's not a job you can do quickly with the engine in - which is also why I'm not doing it until the engine is out. (I'm not being a dick, just trying to point out some bits that get overlooked before leaping) Edited March 6, 2017 by RobPhoboS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Butcher, which parts did you get to replace those gaskets? I'm not sure what I really need - 13531, 13533, 08320-61400 ...? By the way, what was your pressure at idle before the change and what is it now? You have to post some videos now with the new sound of the engine and exhaust. And let's see those dyno test results! Can't wait PS. The OS Giken guys have just confirmed to me that the LSD does not need to be re-tuned if used with a lightened flywheel in a <400hp car. Good news Edited March 7, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 These are the gaskets you need I did take a "before" vid of start up and idle to compare with the "after" so I'll post up when it's all done and of course I'll post new dyno sheet from same dyno too so will be interesting. Not sure it'll tell the full story of how it drives and goes but will be interesting to see! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Great, thanks for the part numbers mate! When do you plan to hit the dyno? What's your projection, around 320hp? If you started with 290hp then 30hp gain might be possible with LTH and the cams. I'm really curious! Are you raising the rev limiter now? Oh and are you getting it all tuned before hitting the dyno? Edited March 7, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 No problem Will be getting the car setup on the dyno, start of May all being well. Hopefully the car will still be making power up to 8k rpm but it may hit a brick wall with the intake so not sure on that. Gains wise 30+ is possible but it's a shot in the dark, the cams are good for at least 10hp the manifolds over decats the same and the heads are an unknown as I couldn't find anyone who's done it before on the HR so we will have to wait and see. I'm really looking forward to finding out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) A couple of quick questions: - was the shorter stub axle on the drive side or on the passenger side? Did it look like this one: http://www.zspeedper...38220-AR011.htm or this one? http://www.zspeedper...38220-AR010.htm - is your 7kg flywheel made of aluminum or steel? Edited March 13, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Here you go, location and part no. My flywheel is steel, didn't fancy an ally one with the insert to be honest! I did read somewhere that the ally ones transmit more noise than the steel too............if you care about the noise that is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) Thanks, I got a used side flange from an older open diff and it seems to be the right length. I don't know if it's the right side though - does it matter? Did you also replace diff's seals and bearings, would you have their part numebrs as well? I've done a lot of reading over the last few days and I think I will eventually go with a 370z crank, 3.7L, 280i/272e cams and long tube headers but not at this stage. I'll stick with a custom built exhaust for a small power NA (2,5'' max) with decats and a stock engine for now. I will probably gut the interior and add a roll cage first - this car will be fast enough for me then. I might add some aero at that stage, we'll see. I will only start modding the engine when I feel like I'm running out of power, which I don't think is going to be sooner than in two years time. Driver mods first! Oh and I'm thinking about getting this flywheel (14lbs): https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-products/z1-motorsports/z1-motorsports-hr-vhr-performance-flywheel-p-9154.html Edited March 15, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Wouldn't know what side that is from looking. Not sure if they are different but you'll need to make sure the splines all locate in the diff properly. I'm sure a bit of googling will give you the answer. Yes mine is fully rebuilt, did the side bearings and seals when I fitted the diff and the pinion bearing/seals etc all replaced when fitting the final drive. You could reuse your bearings if they are low miles but for the sake of a couple of ££ I'd always say better fit new. If I had of opened the bottom end up I think I would've fitted a 370 crank/rods custom pistons but you've got to stop somewhere and I'm not sure you'll gain much, bit more torque mostly I'd guess. Think you're right to do all the chassis mods first, that is where proper speed comes from and losing as much weight as poss, being I'm trying to keep mine as a road car too I wont be going down the stripping out route but as Colin Chapman says "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." For me my cars chassis is very good, with all the huge movement taken out from rebushing everything and the suspension mods allowing more aggressive geometry it's where I'm happy. What really highlights as a down side is the engines really strong midrange with the frustrating fall on its face at 6700rpm ish so hopefully with that put right I'll be happy with mine for years too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 It'll definitely be pulling above that RPM now, I'm sure ! How's your build coming along ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 It'll definitely be pulling above that RPM now, I'm sure ! How's your build coming along ? Yeah I think so too! Really have no idea what the results are gonna be though.........looking forward to finding out. Everything is coming together, waiting on the heads now. They've been a bit more work than was expected and he's a very busy guy doing them for me too. Apparently the port sizes are all good but the shaping can be improved on. Intake port has a "wall" between where it splits to feed the valves (see pics) and the exhaust port short side is quite an angle so he's reshaping and reducing the angle there. Sadly his flow bench is in the process of moving workshops so I'm not able to have a before and after which would have been great, he's predicting a 7cfm improvement per cylinder from his experience, which he added I should gain roughly 0.5hp per cfm, which x 6 I'm happy with. Other than that everything I can do is done, parts are all cleaned up and ready to go back together...........just wanna get stuck into again now. Got some Vibra Technics engine mounts and a prototype gearbox mount I asked them to do for me (which was great they said yes to, service doesn't get better than that!) which I'm looking forward to getting fitted on. That'll mean every single bush and mount on the entire car has been replaced now! I've also taken the plunge and gone for the Stllen gen3 intakes for it as I've been reading some good things about them and didn't want the factory airboxes ending up being the restriction in everything after doing all this work to get it breathing........we will see, I'm still not completely sure on some of the claims from them but they have to be freer flowing so worth it. Pic of inlet port before Roughed out after 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm on the vibra engine mounts + a stubby chassis to engine mount, very good, almost zero movement at all now. Yeah the restriction, more so for us DE than you is pretty hamstrung. ITB's would be brilliant in the end. I think the only bushings left on my car that need doing are the subframe and the radius rod ones. I'd love to do the porting myself, although I need to get a head to practice on first of all, and some serious guidance from a friend that does this on Ferraris/Lambo's etc Have you got a rough idea of when you're hoping to be back out in it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 How do you find the mounts, much noise and vibration increase with them? and is the gearshift slicker? Yeah the HR heads are quite a bit better than the DE but they still leave something on the table. Pulled this image from OnPoint website, shows fully ported DE heads vs stock DE and HR heads...... Inlets Exhaust and I agree, I did speak to Sasha and Jenvey regarding these http://www.onpointdy...-now-available/ but there's not much point before doing what I'm doing now but next year if all's going well I may add a set for the cherry on the cake! They're the 2 main ones to do. If you can get the subframe bushes done, considering my bushes had only done 26k miles too, the difference was massive. Tightens up the rear and stops that floating/disconnected feeling when really pressing on. Does firm up the normal drive too but well worth it for the plus points. Just look at how far the subframe hangs when you next jack your car up! I'd liked to have done a bit of the porting work myself too but given the time scale and the fact you can't add what you accidentally just took off I was quite happy to let Steve just hand them back when he'd finished working his magic. Well.............all going to plan.............heads I collect next Thursday/Friday, then I'll be getting everything back together through whats left of March and April, ready for mapping start of May and then off to Anglesey on the 29th to see what difference its all made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Nice info there, and annoying with my DE lump Although Michael's car is a DE iirc, and he's my inspiration ! I got the road engine mounts, I didn't notice anything extra but I had the Torque Solutions gearbox mount and Whiteline diff mounts already. The gearbox one brought the most vibration but altogether, the shifting is tight as fook now (+ Torque Solution single piece billet short shifter). Subframe will be done later in the year for me, probably in winter I imagine. Which set did you opt for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 It's really interesting to see how the smaller valves used in the HR head actually improve the low lift flow on the intake, hopefully I can keep that line climbing from there on mine though!! It does highlight just how much work they did on the later engine and its not just some letters. I've gone for the road ones too, the guy said the track ones are really hardcore and seriously unsuitable for road use with the additional noise/vibration. Read a lot about the torque solutions mount, what is too much for some seems ok for others but I'll see how I get on with this one they're making up for me. I've got the B&M on mine and I'm really looking forward to a tight shift. My old Evo gearshift was so so sweet so thats my benchmark and so I hoping its like that after. Went for the whiteline kit, didn't want to go for the solid mounting as thought again bit too hardcore for road trips etc and I've been really happy with them. Absolute pig to get the old bushes out though, you just have to cut and tear them out but then the whitelines press in in 2 secs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodISmE Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) I've just been watching this guy's videos. His build is also based on HR with 272/10,8 Tomei cams but he uses 4,08FD and says it's a perfect match with these cams! Looking at how he takes those 3rd gear corners and how well the revs are matched to them, do you think the 3,9 FD will be close enough? Edited March 24, 2017 by GodISmE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350Butcher Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 He says it pulls hard from 5-8k now which is good too know and he's on totally stock intake from plenum, runners and heads and I know that looking at mine now there are definitely gains to be had from porting and profiling that lot. I think the 3.9 will be loads better than the 3.5 on track while still remaining a good cruiser when heading off on road trips so that's why I went for that. Think if I was going for a more track focused build I would've gone with the 4.08 instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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