Please help with problem with an engine that I supplied recently

[ZMANALEX]

On the flywheel alignment, i wasn't actually aware that it had a position sensor on the flywheel, just the crank sensor one on the front of the engine, i would guess that if the two cam position sensors where switched it could cause a problem, but i suspect it just wouldn't run as the system relies on correlating the crank, and cam sensors to be able to fire and fuel in the correct sequence, my first checks would be as i mentioned above.

 

There is no crank sensor on the front of the engine.

 

The crank sensor is on the rear of the engine/gearbox bell housing and picks up from the flywheel.

 

I still say that the crank sensor or the fly fitted wrongly is the issue, however you can never legislate for simple silly mechanic mistakes.

Edited August 14, 2016 by ZMANALEX

[Tricky-Ricky]

On the flywheel alignment, i wasn't actually aware that it had a position sensor on the flywheel, just the crank sensor one on the front of the engine, i would guess that if the two cam position sensors where switched it could cause a problem, but i suspect it just wouldn't run as the system relies on correlating the crank, and cam sensors to be able to fire and fuel in the correct sequence, my first checks would be as i mentioned above.

 

There is no crank sensor on the front of the engine.

 

The crank sensor is on the rear of the engine/gearbox bell housing and picks up from the flywheel.

 

I still say that the crank sensor or the fly fitted wrongly is the issue, however you can never legislate for simple silly mechanic mistakes.

 

Wasn't aware of that, thanks! presume its a hall sensor that reads flywheel/starter teeth? makes sense, i am used to hall triggers on the front of crank,

Surly the flywheel is pegged onto the end of the crank to avoid incorrect fitting?

Yes this was my thinking on the miss diagnosis of the mechanic.

[Pedro85]

1)Yeah i asked him about this and he said he had checked.

 

2) Ill ask about this when i speak to him on Monday.

 

3) Same as above

 

4) Also same.

 

5) He has put oil in it yes,

 

6) The spark plugs are fairly new, they are Bosch plugs which i know isn't recommended but they ran fine in my old engine, besides the 4th cylinder which was buggered.

 

7) Im not sure about this but he did compression test the engine before fitting which would have been done by hand.

 

8) He didnt say anything about codes but ill ask him to check on Monday.

 

9) My car is a UK 05 which is the same as the donor car so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues.

 

He said that he had the plenum off and observed flames coming from all six intakes so i dont think its related to the coil pack wiring if this is the case.

 

If this guy cant do the work, is there anyone around Aberdeen that anyone can recommend?

 

Cheers

[Ricey]

On the flywheel alignment, i wasn't actually aware that it had a position sensor on the flywheel, just the crank sensor one on the front of the engine, i would guess that if the two cam position sensors where switched it could cause a problem, but i suspect it just wouldn't run as the system relies on correlating the crank, and cam sensors to be able to fire and fuel in the correct sequence, my first checks would be as i mentioned above.

 

There is no crank sensor on the front of the engine.

 

The crank sensor is on the rear of the engine/gearbox bell housing and picks up from the flywheel.

 

I still say that the crank sensor or the fly fitted wrongly is the issue, however you can never legislate for simple silly mechanic mistakes.

 

Wasn't aware of that, thanks! presume its a hall sensor that reads flywheel/starter teeth? makes sense, i am used to hall triggers on the front of crank,

Surly the flywheel is pegged onto the end of the crank to avoid incorrect fitting?

Yes this was my thinking on the miss diagnosis of the mechanic.

Nope. Aftermarket fly basically says something along the lines of 'there are 4 ways to fit this.......one is correct.......good luck'

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

 

[ZMANALEX]

There is a small pin in the end of the crank which marries up with a small hole in the fly.

 

However it is very easy to fit the fly in the wrong position if you are not informed.

 

Only solution is to pull the box and reposition the fly to the correct position.

[ZMANALEX]

[ZMANALEX]

Technical Bulletin: ACT Flywheel on a Nissan 350Z and Infiniti G35

 

 

This entry was posted on June 21, 2013 by advancedclutch.

 

Nissan equips many of its newer vehicles with a dual-mass flywheel to control a portion of the engine’s torsional vibrations, which causes various types of gear rattle noises. A dual-mass flywheel exhibits unique damping characteristics that cannot be replicated with a single-mass design.

When converting from the heavy, original dual-mass flywheel to any lighter, single-mass, aftermarket flywheel, much of the original torsional damping is defeated (with a partial exception when also using a spring-centered or damped clutch disc). As can be expected, the result is an increase in gear noise. In general, the lighter the flywheel is, the louder the gear noise will be.

During testing, ACT found two types of gear noise that commonly occur when using a lightened flywheel on the 350Z or G35: 1) idle mode rattle (also called neutral rollover noise), which occurs when idling in neutral with the clutch engaged, and 2) burst rattle (or start-up rattle), which is heard when accelerating heavily at very low rpm. Although annoying to some drivers, the additional gear noise should pose no harm to the transmission.

ACT manufactures flywheels in both Streetlite and Prolite versions. Each version is manufactured with integral ring gear that allows a greater weight reduction and eliminates the chance of gear breakage. ACT heat treats the entire forging for strength and durability. All ACT flywheels provide safety, improved throttle response, better feedback to the driver and increased acceleration. ACT flywheels are able to be resurfaced, if needed, which can save from having to purchase additional parts, as is common with any two-piece units.

ACT flywheels meet SFI Spec. 1.1 and are legal for competition in all racing organizations where SFI certification is required.

Installation note: The alignment hole in the flywheel must be lined up with the crankshaft dowel. It is possible for the flywheel to be mounted in a misaligned position. If the alignment hole is not positioned properly, the car will not start or run properly because of incorrect timing of the crankshaft, speed triggers machined into the flywheel.

Edited August 14, 2016 by ZMANALEX

[Pedro85]

I was having a read of this:

 

http://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-nissan-and-infiniti-dual-mass-flywheel-installation/

 

According to the comments its actually the small square hole that is to be used for alignment, correct?

 

Cheers

[Tricky-Ricky]

 

 

He said that he had the plenum off and observed flames coming from all six intakes so i dont think its related to the coil pack wiring if this is the case.

 

Cheers

 

Will the VQ run with no MAF signal? and if what Ricey is saying is correct and there are four possible positions for the flywheel to be fitted, it would mean that the position could be anything from 45 deg or more out, which would not allow the engine to even run, but even so the sensor will just count teeth, and the ECU will know the relevant position for correlating the cam POS with the crank to determine the actual real position, so in theory unless these do tally up the engine will not fire anyway.

[Pedro85]

When trying to diagnose the problem with my original engine i did unplug the MAF while it was running to see if it made a difference and the engine did run without it, just pretty rough.

[Jon T]

I agree with everything said today.

 

Firstly I'm just going to update our check list, to make it more readable to others:

 

1) Rear coil packs mixed up. Yeah i asked him about this and he said he had checked

 

2) Flywheel out of alignment. Ill ask about this when i speak to him on Monday.

 

3) Bottom CPS: yes these often get "smacked" when changing engines due to their position. From my experience when the CPS is gone, then it won't run at all. Same as above

 

4) Oil pressure gauge used to check oil pressure. Also same.

 

5) Has he put oil in it? He has put oil in it yes,

 

6) are they correct spark plugs? The spark plugs are fairly new, they are Bosch plugs which i know isn't recommended but they ran fine in my old engine, besides the 4th cylinder which was buggered.

 

7) did he turn the engine over by hand to build some pressure and settle the chain? Im not sure about this but he did compression test the engine before fitting which would have been done by hand

 

8) do a code read post codes? He didnt say anything about codes but ill ask him to check on Monday.

 

9) is it correct engine ie revup or non revup. (we did check this didn't we Pedro?) My car is a UK 05 which is the same as the donor car so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues

 

 

Additional comments.

 

He said that he had the plenum off and observed flames coming from all six intakes so i dont think its related to the coil pack wiring if this is the case. I believe this just means that timing is out. It could be coil packs yes, or mechanical, or anyhting affecting timing.

 

If this guy cant do the work, is there anyone around Aberdeen that anyone can recommend? Expect courier costs £1-1.5 per mile. Alex are you within range and would be willing to take the car on Sir?

 

Regards fly wheel, just gearbox would have to be removed to check it, so we should plan to make this the last thing to be checked if you know what I mean.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Jon@Emperor

[Jon T]

When trying to diagnose the problem with my original engine i did unplug the MAF while it was running to see if it made a difference and the engine did run without it, just pretty rough.

 

From my experience removing MAF retards timing for safety and richens the mix, but nothing that would give our symptoms.

 

 

Just looking away from this problem quickly, and to the future sales of engine. This sale has really given me the willies. An idea crossed my mind. I could only offer future returns/warranty etc if the engine change is done at a "approved" 350z engine change mechanic. There would be a list of approved mechanics that we would approve and update on a regular basis.

 

Currently, before selling engines, I always check with buyer that their mechanic is qualified, but it doesn't appear to be working.

 

This would:

1) make my life so much easier, as you can imagine I get so many problems like this involving well-meaning mechanics, that are just not up to the job.

2) make it much cheaper and less stressful for the customer.

 

Or maybe I'll only ship to garages on the approved list or something?

Edited August 14, 2016 by Jon@Emperor

[ZMANALEX]

Nah!!!! just leave the flywheel on next time you sell a bare block, lesson learnt and all that. :lol:

[Jon T]

Nah!!!! just leave the flywheel on next time you sell a bare block, lesson learnt and all that. :lol:

 

That would be a HELL of a lot easier wouldn't it...

[Ricey]

 

 

He said that he had the plenum off and observed flames coming from all six intakes so i dont think its related to the coil pack wiring if this is the case.

 

Cheers

 

Will the VQ run with no MAF signal? and if what Ricey is saying is correct and there are four possible positions for the flywheel to be fitted, it would mean that the position could be anything from 45 deg or more out, which would not allow the engine to even run, but even so the sensor will just count teeth, and the ECU will know the relevant position for correlating the cam POS with the crank to determine the actual real position, so in theory unless these do tally up the engine will not fire anyway.

I only know because my mech fell foul of it once. Box off again......strewth!

 

He's a cracking mech but thats where being a specialist sometimes pays dividends.

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

 

[Jon T]

He said that he had the plenum off and observed flames coming from all six intakes so i dont think its related to the coil pack wiring if this is the case.

 

Cheers

 

Will the VQ run with no MAF signal? and if what Ricey is saying is correct and there are four possible positions for the flywheel to be fitted, it would mean that the position could be anything from 45 deg or more out, which would not allow the engine to even run, but even so the sensor will just count teeth, and the ECU will know the relevant position for correlating the cam POS with the crank to determine the actual real position, so in theory unless these do tally up the engine will not fire anyway.

I only know because my mech fell foul of it once. Box off again......strewth!

 

He's a cracking mech but thats where being a specialist sometimes pays dividends.

 

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

Agreed Sir. Agreed. Because they have made the mistakes before and know what to look for.

 

 

 

Pedro any updates from the front line Sir?

[Pedro85]

Yeah ive just been down to see him.

 

Firstly according to him the engine does use hydraulic lifters? He seemed pretty sure about it.

 

He is judging the oil pressure mostly by the oil warning light on the dash, he says it should turn off almost instantly after starting the engine. He started the car so i could hear, sounded very rough and the oil warning light remained on and there was no oil pressure reading on the cabin gauge. Also with the throttle held open it wouldn't rev past about 1100.

 

As far as the CPS and flywheel are concerned he said that the flywheel could only be fitted one way and that the sensor was undamaged.

 

Also he told me that there were no ECU codes and that if the flywheel was out of alignment he would expect some kind of code to be thrown up.

 

Basically because of the oil pressure problem he says that its pointless to continue trying to fix it and that i should just get it removed and look for another engine. Personally i would like a second opinion though, preferably from someone who knows these cars.

 

I think my best option would be to have it recovered and sent somewhere else, but i don't know of anyone nearby who can help.

 

Cheers

Edited August 15, 2016 by Pedro85

[Tricky-Ricky]

Yeah ive just been down to see him.

 

Firstly according to him the engine does use hydraulic lifters? He seemed pretty sure about it.

 

He is judging the oil pressure mostly by the oil warning light on the dash, he says it should turn off almost instantly after starting the engine. He started the car so i could hear, sounded very rough and the oil warning light remained on and there was no oil pressure reading on the cabin gauge. Also with the throttle held open it wouldn't rev past about 1100.

 

As far as the CPS and flywheel are concerned he said that the flywheel could only be fitted one way and that the sensor was undamaged.

 

Also he told me that there were no ECU codes and that if the flywheel was out of alignment he would expect some kind of code to be thrown up.

 

Basically because of the oil pressure problem he says that its pointless to continue trying to fix it and that i should just get it removed and look for another engine. Personally i would like a second opinion though, preferably from someone who knows these cars.

 

I think my best option would be to have it recovered and sent somewhere else, but i don't know of anyone nearby who can help.

 

Cheers

 

Sorry but you definitely need to take it somewhere else that knows what there doing, this guy clearly does not!

 

Unfortunately i live in Norfolk, or i would help you sort it.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Tricky-Ricky

[Pedro85]

Yeah i'm inclined to agree,

 

Anyone have any suggestions? Would be really appreciated.

 

Cheers

[Lexx]

Speak to Ewen at Clark Motorsport. He's based in Kintore. He doesn't work on cars anymore, but he'll be able to recommend someone in the AB postcode who can help

[Jon T]

Firstly according to him the engine does use hydraulic lifters? He seemed pretty sure about it.

 

He is judging the oil pressure mostly by the oil warning light on the dash, he says it should turn off almost instantly after starting the engine. He started the car so i could hear, sounded very rough and the oil warning light remained on and there was no oil pressure reading on the cabin gauge. Also with the throttle held open it wouldn't rev past about 1100.

 

As far as the CPS and flywheel are concerned he said that the flywheel could only be fitted one way and that the sensor was undamaged.

 

Also he told me that there were no ECU codes and that if the flywheel was out of alignment he would expect some kind of code to be thrown up.

 

Basically because of the oil pressure problem he says that its pointless to continue trying to fix it and that i should just get it removed and look for another engine. Personally i would like a second opinion though, preferably from someone who knows these cars.

 

Wow. Nice.

 

I think every single point in that post is incorrect? That engine never had a chance.

 

On the plus side, I think I am correct in saying that there is no way that the mechanic could have damaged the engine right? I mean, even if the timing is messed up by, for instance, the flywheel on wrong, you couldn't actually do any mechanic damage to it. Just flood the bores with fuel and upset it a bit.

 

As long as he hasn't gone into the timnig chain compartment, then there can never be any internal valve/piston interference.

 

Please confirm?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Jon@Emperor

[d95gas]

Sounds like a plan for some serious grovelling to someone who knows these engines inside out, and whom we all have faith in ......... Alex step forward Seriously, if I was not in this position, Alex would be the man I would be talking to, even if there is a cost involved for recovery....... Your guy definitely doesn't instill much confidence now.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Firstly according to him the engine does use hydraulic lifters? He seemed pretty sure about it.

 

He is judging the oil pressure mostly by the oil warning light on the dash, he says it should turn off almost instantly after starting the engine. He started the car so i could hear, sounded very rough and the oil warning light remained on and there was no oil pressure reading on the cabin gauge. Also with the throttle held open it wouldn't rev past about 1100.

 

As far as the CPS and flywheel are concerned he said that the flywheel could only be fitted one way and that the sensor was undamaged.

 

Also he told me that there were no ECU codes and that if the flywheel was out of alignment he would expect some kind of code to be thrown up.

 

Basically because of the oil pressure problem he says that its pointless to continue trying to fix it and that i should just get it removed and look for another engine. Personally i would like a second opinion though, preferably from someone who knows these cars.

 

Wow. Nice.

 

I think every single point in that post is incorrect? That engine never had a chance.

 

On the plus side, I think I am correct in saying that there is no way that the mechanic could have damaged the engine right? I mean, even if the timing is messed up by, for instance, the flywheel on wrong, you couldn't actually do any mechanic damage to it. Just flood the bores with fuel and upset it a bit.

 

As long as he hasn't gone into the timnig chain compartment, then there can never be any internal valve/piston interference.

 

Please confirm?

 

Sounds to me like it running in limp mode due to something being out, IE a sensor being out of range, if he had bothered to run a diagnostic on it he would know what to fix instead of clutching at straws......like hydraulic followers and no oil pressure.

 

Anyway there is no way anything should be damaged IF he hasn't buggered around with something he shouldn't, if the crank signal was out to any degree the engine just wouldn't run, if its in limp because of a sensor or coil pack wired incorrectly.

[ZMANALEX]

I would love to help, however I am backed up for 4 months with stuff.

 

However if you give me the guys name and address I will give him a ring or even drop in to see him as I am in Aberdeen every week.

 

Regarding the oil pressure, if there was zero oil pressure, the engine would be rattling and I certainly would not be revving it.

 

This smacks of 2 faults;

 

(1) Faulty oil pressure sender switch (providing the correct oil and filter is fitted and up to the level)

 

(2) Flywheel fitted in wrong position.

 

I would take an oil pressure reading with an independent gauge from the block where the sender switch screws into the engine beside the oil filter. I am 99% sure that this will provide a positive reading.

 

Once that is sorted, then the box will have to be pulled and the flywheel repositioned.

 

Is the car still with the garage and have you paid him any money ?

Edited August 15, 2016 by ZMANALEX

[Pedro85]

The car is at the garage yeah, I've paid him for the work done so far.

 

Ill pm you his details, don't want to go publicly shaming someone.

 

I'm actually based in Ellon just north of Aberdeen, but if you could get in touch with him somehow it would be most appreciated