Stutopia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 For those that don't get it, there are plenty drivers out there who take no pleasure from driving and some who are actively anxious about having to drive. Automating driving (particularly in rural environments) could eventually make driving much less of a chore/challenge for these people and should (on average) make them less of a menace. Automating it in cities, could eventually eliminate traffic jams. I think they've already done the math and confirmed that even with this fatality, Tesla are still ahead of the average "death rate' (every 90 million miles or so in the US). I can't see them banning it, unless driver caused death rates suddenly drop to zero! Not that that's really relevant as the driver does not appear to have been using it as instructed. So in that regard, it's no different to driving a regular car with your eyes closed or hands tied behind your back - he didn't even see an 18 wheeler coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 See, I see driving as a privilege, not a right. If someone cannot concentrate enough to drive properly, then they shouldn't be on the roads full stop. I get that can limit life for some people, but honestly that's just tough luck. Transporting people in a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 70mph *should* be a skill, not something you pass on to a computer to take care of for you. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 See, I see driving as a privilege, not a right. If someone cannot concentrate enough to drive properly, then they shouldn't be on the roads full stop. I get that can limit life for some people, but honestly that's just tough luck. Transporting people in a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 70mph *should* be a skill, not something you pass on to a computer to take care of for you. Couldn't agree more with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Couldnt agree more with Dan, until autonomous driving is 100% then people should not rely on it 100% If you cannot drive, then you do not have a car, you use taxi's/public transport. Sounds a hard line but thats what those services are there for. If someone drives into a car and kills the other person then if they are deemed driving dangerously they can be prosecuted, who prosecutes the computer that deliberately drives on into another car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 See, I see driving as a privilege, not a right. If someone cannot concentrate enough to drive properly, then they shouldn't be on the roads full stop. I get that can limit life for some people, but honestly that's just tough luck. Transporting people in a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 70mph *should* be a skill, not something you pass on to a computer to take care of for you. I agree that drivers should be held to higher standards. You only need to look at how inadequate the driving test is (I'm assuming that it hasn't significantly changed since I took it 17 years ago), and passing that qualifies you to drive whatever you can afford as well. The problem there is that driving IS seen as a right these days, and we've come too far to turn around and say that 30% (or whatever) of drivers aren't up to scratch and aren't allowed to drive any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsexr Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 They have made the motorbike test harder as the years have gone by ( blame the EU for that... dont start...lol ) but they are cautious about being too hard with the driving test as they may upset too many of the voting public. Its just the way it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 See, I see driving as a privilege, not a right. If someone cannot concentrate enough to drive properly, then they shouldn't be on the roads full stop. I get that can limit life for some people, but honestly that's just tough luck. Transporting people in a 2 ton hunk of metal travelling at 70mph *should* be a skill, not something you pass on to a computer to take care of for you. Couldn't agree more with that. I do agree that driving should be a privilege, reserved for those that can be bothered. But I don't for a second think anyone is likely to turn around and toughen up legislation on people who drive as a chore/despite their health. If we've learnt anything recently it's that oldies vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Automating it in cities, could eventually eliminate traffic jams Not when we still have junctions, traffic lights etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Automating it in cities, could eventually eliminate traffic jams Not when we still have junctions, traffic lights etc Yes when we still have junctions, traffic lights etc Your counterpart, from even further back in time, would have objected in the same way when they first tried to take his horse off him. All it takes is coordination between vehicles, their navigation, traffic lights and you could choreograph in real time, away from blockages and into openings, making streets temporarily all one way or one way streets bi-directional, on demand to suit the time of day or a leaky water main. We're on day 1 now, there's no reason why this couldn't be in place on day 10,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMballistic Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Automating it in cities, could eventually eliminate traffic jams Not when we still have junctions, traffic lights etc Yes when we still have junctions, traffic lights etc Your counterpart, from even further back in time, would have objected in the same way when they first tried to take his horse off him. All it takes is coordination between vehicles, their navigation, traffic lights and you could choreograph in real time, away from blockages and into openings, making streets temporarily all one way or one way streets bi-directional, on demand to suit the time of day or a leaky water main. We're on day 1 now, there's no reason why this couldn't be in place on day 10,000. Sorry but I'm with Jetpilot on this one, ...never going to happen imo. Far too many variables. Even if they got all the cars, traffic lights etc as you say in some choreographed synchronization some tw*t on a pedal bike would spoil it all anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) We can argue about autonomy as much as we like but just like EVs its coming like it or not. In addition to Tesla. Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Apple, Google are all developing the tech. AI systems when using fuzzy logic can now pilot military jets better than humans, piloting a car is rather simple in comparison. The current autopilot tech is no where near whats needed for full autonomy, both interms of hardware and software. http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight But ethical and legal issues will need to be addressed if we do start allowing machines that can make autonomous decisions onto our roads, the situation of if a crash is unavoidable but do I crash into a school bus or a brick wall will come up. Still I can see the day when humans are banned from driving on M-ways, which given the awful state of driving I sometimes see wouldn't be a bad thing. Edited July 2, 2016 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeybrain1234 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) A computer cannot foresee what we see. Such as cars coming down a slip road, a switched on driver will anticipate the lorry in the slow lane moving into the middle lane, so we would plan for that small but potential move by them, either by moving into the fast lane or giving some space. Therefore making the motorway a safer place. A computer and sensors would not see this. Edited July 2, 2016 by monkeybrain1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 If the responsibility always stays with the driver, then autonomous cars are pointless as you still have to give full concentration. If the responsibility goes to the car, lawsuits will quickly put a stop to the whole plan when accidents happen, plus they would rely on EVERY car being autonomous. The first instance is the more likely one. It'll remain forever a gadget within my lifetime (much like EVs ), but it's an interesting niche to see developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The first instance is the more likely one. It'll remain forever a gadget within my lifetime (much like EVs ). I see it the other way round, when petrol cars become a weekend hobby like horse riding I might finally look into a DC2 Teg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 My car is already a weekend hobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 So the driver was probably watching a film at the time of the crash....Tragic error of judgement, but hopefully others will wake up (literally) to the limits of the tech. https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/01/police-confirm-dvd-player-found-in-tesla-autopilot-wreck/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Sorry but I'm with Jetpilot on this one, ...never going to happen imo. Far too many variables. Even if they got all the cars, traffic lights etc as you say in some choreographed synchronization some tw*t on a pedal bike would spoil it all anyway. Fair enough, but the pace of change is so intense. It was only 1903 when man first flew something like 800 feet, 66 years later we'd been to the moon and back. The IBM chap who predicted there would be 5 computers ever, back in 1943, 70 years later, there's 5 within 15 feet of my bed To say anything is never going to happen... If the responsibility always stays with the driver, then autonomous cars are pointless as you still have to give full concentration. If the responsibility goes to the car, lawsuits will quickly put a stop to the whole plan when accidents happen, plus they would rely on EVERY car being autonomous. The first instance is the more likely one. It'll remain forever a gadget within my lifetime (much like EVs ), but it's an interesting niche to see developed. In terms of lawsuits, we already have legal disputes when accidents occur in drivered vehicles. Class actions when incidents occur now due to failed parts or faulty designs, recalls like GT3s catching fire or like the mass jap airbag screw up. There probably hasn't been a day in the last 25 years where someone isn't suing some other person/player/manufacturer in the automotive industry, yet they still carry on churning out new models and the industry goes on developing new features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeybrain1234 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Its like alot of in car tech. Eg You can have a speed detector which warns you of cameras etc but it doesn't mean you can just floor it everywhere you go. Sooner or later you will get caught. The technology is there to aid us but not necessarily replace human logic. Only way things are fully autonomous is having systems like trains and buses. You are merely along for the ride with no control. Until they make magnetic highways or roads with tracks I cannot see this happening. (which in my book is a good thing as I love driving.) Edited July 2, 2016 by monkeybrain1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Will we get one of those dudes like men in black who goes back into the steering wheel, if we do, i am in Edited July 2, 2016 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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