Gus-350z Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 .... or you could just buy a more powerful car to start off with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 you could just set up some something that sprayed liquid nitrogen onto a front mount intercooler... much like the waterspray button on early impreza turbos, but a lot colder Spraying gas around an engine isnt a good idea since the motor can suck it in , I've seen this happen with those nitrous spraybar systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus-350z Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) you could just set up some something that sprayed liquid nitrogen onto a front mount intercooler... much like the waterspray button on early impreza turbos, but a lot colder Spraying gas around an engine isnt a good idea since the motor can suck it in , I've seen this happen with those nitrous spraybar systems People have actually done this?! Or is it just for nitrous injection as opposed to cooling.. Edited May 24, 2016 by Gus-350z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 you could just set up some something that sprayed liquid nitrogen onto a front mount intercooler... much like the waterspray button on early impreza turbos, but a lot colder Spraying gas around an engine isnt a good idea since the motor can suck it in , I've seen this happen with those nitrous spraybar systems People have actually done this?! Or is it just for nitrous injection as opposed to cooling.. Yes , was a "thing" at one time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus-350z Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Looks like we missed the boat brillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just had another daft though while thinking about air density. What if you dropped a plastic bag of ice cubes into the bottom of the air filter box (so you don't obstruct air flow to much) would that then increase performance until they melted? If for argument sake this gave 5bhp gain, i very much doubt you'd feel any difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just had another daft though while thinking about air density. What if you dropped a plastic bag of ice cubes into the bottom of the air filter box (so you don't obstruct air flow to much) would that then increase performance until they melted? If for argument sake this gave 5bhp gain, i very much doubt you'd feel any difference Same as the heat soak from a CAI.......noise makes up for the small loss of ponies. Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Not always a small loss , we have had cars with aftermarket intakes make 10% less power than those with stock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 On a n/a Zed bonnet up with large fan in front (heat soak not being an issue and how most dynos are setup) why would a WAI with velocity stack make less power than the OE air box set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahameJ Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Since fitting a cold an EVO-R Performance Cold Air Intake Duct which takes the air in at the bottom left side of the radiator my average mpg has gone up from 24.9mpg to 25.5mpg, Measured over 1852 miles, and calculated by filling up to the brim and noting the mileage and fuel measured at the pump. So for me cold air has made a small difference. I got the idea for this when I saw Sheeza's Zed time story on page 4: http://www.350z-uk.c...ry/page__st__60 I modified the black plastic cover at the side of the radiator to direct air into the intake. Someone with more knowledge may be able to say if this is a high pressure area or not???? Edited May 24, 2016 by GrahameJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Wow this has got rather involved, with intakes as long as you can get a reasonable amount of air at atmospheric temps into the engine, and not sucking in the air from the engine bay, you will not loose any performance, as for gaining any.... you wont! well none that you would actually notice. The reason for cooling FI as much as possible is solely due to the amount of heat generated from the compression process, and if turbocharged the extra added heat from the exhaust side of the compressor, although its mainly just compression that adds the heat as once the airflow is moving fast enough the boundary layer effect comes into play and the moving air intakes very little heat from the walls of the tubing and compressor metal, which is one of the reasons for intercoolers being not all that efficient, and having to be a trade off for flow, pressure drop and gallery design. Water injection on a like for like basis is probably better at cooling charge temps, and has the added benefit of in cylinder cooling if done right, however I doubt you would actually notice the difference on an N/A engine in the real world, in fact I had this from the horses mouth so to speak ( Richard Lamb) who developed the Aquamist xterm of WI, when I asked him if he thought I should bother adding WI to my DE on the Skyline. Besides modern engine ECU will adjust fuelling to compensate for intake temperatures by volume MAF and IAT compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modo Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 My head hurts, full of mushy peas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Starting to wish i hadn't asked now. No No, really it's interesting, a bit like getting your head around black holes and dark matter. The trick is to pack in thinking just before your eyeballs rotate to a position where you can see the end of your nose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjdugen Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Very interesting! I like the idea of using the A/C as a charge cooling device. On a hot day its usually on, might as well gain a little benefit back. But, my two pennorth is this. Motorcycles have been developing the ram air effect for some years now. The latest incarnations have a truly massive air scoop right at the nose of the front fairing. (I'm talking sports bikes here.) Getting neigh on 200 BHP from a one litre engine is some indication of the developments that have taken place. I would suggest that the small 'scoop' at the front of the Z is hardly going to generate much in the way of increased pressure. But my thoughts are that a scoop the width of the front would really generate an increased pressure front. I'm still unsure as to the trade off between drag and increased intake volume/pressure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus-350z Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Starting to wish i hadn't asked now. No No, really it's interesting, a bit like getting your head around black holes and dark matter. The trick is to pack in thinking just before your eyeballs rotate to a position where you can see the end of your nose The problem with dark matter is that no one's got their head around it yet (And black holes are just where spacetime itself gets confused) Edited May 25, 2016 by Gus-350z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GappySmeg Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Motorcycles have been developing the ram air effect for some years now. The latest incarnations have a truly massive air scoop right at the nose of the front fairing. (I'm talking sports bikes here.) Getting neigh on 200 BHP from a one litre engine is some indication of the developments that have taken place. True, but only a couple of that 200bhp is due to the "ram air effect"... to the extent that most manufacturers don't even bother quoting it. There was a time when the leaflets would quote things like "155bhp, 160 with Ram Air"... but it's so minimal, subject to conditions, and obviously speed (you ain't going to be getting that extra 5hp at legal speeds!!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The logical progression of the ram air effect...... :p 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 as I say, wind pressure is there, but its very minimal. its certainly no where near as significant as boost is. reminds me of the Roadkill guys, who tried to supercharge a car using 5 leaf blowers. it did actually make a bit more power, but not much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 At the end of the straight at the Shanghai circuit where the car is travelling at close to 330kph with DRS open, the air pressure hitting the air filter will be close to 1,070 millibar – normal ambient air pressure is around 1,020 millibar. This means the engine produces around 5% more power – equivalent to 40 bhp – than at ‘walking speed’. Interesting article here http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1/technology-explained-f1-airboxes-filters/ I used to be very involved in a class of drag racing where modifications were limited and only normally aspirated engines permitted, in this world every single hp you make is important and air boxes were complicated things that required significant thought and experimentation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 but isn't kinetic energy proportional to speed squared, so halve the speed to 100mph and you'd only get a quarter of the gains? ie 1.25%, which in a zed is about 3bhp. your time would be better spent checking the tyres are properly inflated and that you aren't carrying around any excess weight in the boot than trying to engineer a better airbox. perhaps on a drag strip where speeds are higher and horsepower is higher, but on a zed travelling at moderate speeds I just don't think its worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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