Advice please...Confused.com

[Carbon.Ninja]

Hi all, been doing some reading online about the wheel and tyres. There are so many opinions however I am trying to narrow down to what will work and suit my needs. Therefore I would like to ask for your experience on this topic and help me to make a right choice.

 

Background

- Car will be dropped around 25mm

- Function is important although look is a benefit

- 18in is preferred as dont want (too much additional mass) as I don't have a good bank balance for forge rims.

 

Current thoughts:-

 

Square setup seems to dial out some understeer. considering 18 x 9 or 9.5J ET20 all 4.

 

Anyone have any experience with this also selection of tyre size that can share?

 

The car is used on the road and some sprited driving. Track does not occurs at the moment but maybe considered.

 

I understand VDC will be an issue with square setup but how severe with this issue in terms of driving. I assume would means VDC kicking in too early potentially?

[Ekona]

Don't confuse a square wheel setup with a square tyre setup. You can run the former with staggered tyres and have no issues at all. Unless you're aiming at a specific track only setup AND have a significant ability behind the wheel, I would strongly recommend against running a square tyre setup. You'll be promoting snap oversteer and an incredibly twitchy car, which can suit some drivers but only in specific circumstances.

 

If you want to tame understeer, do it by adjusting the tyre pressures and the geometry. You'll still get dramatic results if required, but it's much easier to tweak as you need to. If you're staying with 18s (and I would too) then in the wheel sizes you've mentioned I'd move to a 245F and 265R setup, that will still fit but won't upset the balance of the car.

 

If you did run a square tyre setup too, you'll pretty much need to drive with VDC off all the time otherwise it'll be incredibly and potentially dangerously intrusive.

[Carbon.Ninja]

Good info Ekona and much appreciated. My consideration is highly not to ruin the balance of the car as there is nothing worst to ruin the fun! In the case I should maybe run 9J front and 9.5J Rear to stay within the recommended range for the width.

 

In the case of offset do you or anyone have any recommendations? Considering ET20 all round? Issue with fender likely?

 

 

 

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[Ekona]

I'm the world's worst person to ask about offsets

 

That said, you're only going out by 10/13mm front to rear split over both sides of the wheel. Should be fine.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Ekona

[KyleR]

Depends what tyres you're going to run. If it's 245/265 front like Dan suggested, you'd get away with et+15 front and et+10 rear easily.

[Jetpilot]

If you are in the position to choose your wheels i would go 8.5 & 9.5 et20 on both (or thereabouts) and run 245 & 275 respectively, its a good combo with those widths and tyre sizes and wont upset the tcs, or balance.

 

Certainly wouldnt go square.

[veilside z]

Lots of wheel choices available to choose from

[Carbon.Ninja]

Jet how you find the 275? As I find the 350z take quite a bit of commitment to get it sliding. (Compare to a GT86)... Just want to make sure it is not too grippy?

 

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[Carbon.Ninja]

Lots of wheel choices available to choose from

Yea indeed too many to choose from. I send enquiry to Bola and ask about their wheels. As I'm a bit pedantic about wheels so wanted to dig deeper about their designs.....

 

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[rtbiscuit]

Enkei RPF01's nice light wheel and not going to break the bank.

[Jetpilot]

A gt86 is designed to be loose hence the skinny tyres, a lot will depend on what tyre you go for of course but personally think 275 & 245 is spot on, provoke it enough and will slide.

[370Ad]

Good info Ekona and much appreciated. My consideration is highly not to ruin the balance of the car as there is nothing worst to ruin the fun! In the case I should maybe run 9J front and 9.5J Rear to stay within the recommended range for the width.

 

In the case of offset do you or anyone have any recommendations? Considering ET20 all round? Issue with fender likely?

 

 

 

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ET20 all round will be fine, I ran that on my 50 with 9.5J on the front and 10.5J on the back

[Carbon.Ninja]

Enkei RPF01's nice light wheel and not going to break the bank.

Any suggestion for a good concave? Im a big sucker for concave rims lol

 

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[Jetpilot]

Japan racing have a couple of heavy concaves coming out.

[rtbiscuit]

Enkei RPF01's nice light wheel and not going to break the bank.

Any suggestion for a good concave? Im a big sucker for concave rims lol

 

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not anything on a budget that doesn't way a ton

 

if you want concave and light then forged really is your only option

[Carbon.Ninja]

Japan racing have a couple of heavy concaves coming out.

Jet I contacted Japan Racing before. I asked them some fundamental questions they never came back to me. Despite they do look nice but not confident. For casted wheel I want to make sure they are heat treated and amongst other things lol

 

 

 

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[rtbiscuit]

Tarmac sportz has a good selection and know the cars well, they may be able to advise

[Jetpilot]

Japan racing have a couple of heavy concaves coming out.

Jet I contacted Japan Racing before. I asked them some fundamental questions they never came back to me. Despite they do look nice but not confident. For casted wheel I want to make sure they are heat treated and amongst other things lol

 

 

 

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I choose my words carefully and no offence meant, but, there is a reason why some alloys are expensive and if your budget is limited you may not have the luxury of expensive treatments.

 

I have seen a few threads on here recently with damaged Rotas, but on the most part they are good value, but you always get what you pay for.

[rtbiscuit]

Cheapest wheels I've owned were oz racing super leggera's the most expensive BBS 2 piece split rims

 

loved both sets but the difference between them was noticeable

 

you spends ya money ya makes ya choices

 

With a lot of things I tend to have the philosopher of buy cheap; buy twice. but it isn't always the case. Rota and others make great wheels but you pay for it in other areas like weight and manufacturing techniques.

 

what is your budget?

[Ekona]

Nowt wrong with Rotas

Edited May 1, 2016 by Ekona

[Carbon.Ninja]

Jet and Rt totally agrees you get what you pay for. Jet I have no confident is because JR themselves never answered my enquiry.

 

Of course the flow forming /forging rims will be more expensive and weight can be save as they can afford to thin out some area due to material property. Casted wheel is a bit cheaper. Although casted wheel the material is like dried cucumber --> brittle if not done right. Without going into much science of it, aside from design the biggest part is the variation control in production. Unless physically go and watch their manufacturing process no supplier will give us the whole production flow to evaluate. However if we know any of the casted wheel supplier carries out heat treatment that would be a good starting point. . As non heat treated wheel will have lower fatigue resistance. If possible always asks what static wheel load they are validated for will give a little bit more comfort. While we on this topic.. Just to share, if ever going for refinish wheels becareful. As heat applied in secondary painting can have effect on hardness, hardness increase => less elastic! => Crack.

 

Although my original question is the application and experience as I'm aware of the VDC and any rubbing issues.. As this is the valuable experiences that you guys have and share... As always much appreciated for the help on here.

 

For budget up to £1k I think it is reasonable?

 

 

 

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Edited May 1, 2016 by Carbon.Ninja

[rtbiscuit]

At that price your looking at rota wheels, possible varstoen, in which case tarmac is your man. Enkei are off the cards. other unkown brands might be possible. buddyclub did some interesting wheels at a sensible price.

 

with regards to production methods I think you are over thinking it a little, its nice too know its been made well or to a certain standard, but at the end of the day none would secure BS kite marks or the TUF equivelant if they weren't suitable.

 

any wheel will break if you hit it hard enough

 

with regards to powder coating the temp range is fairly wide to still be within safe tolerances and any good wheel powder coater will know this. mostly they should be baked around oven temp, anything higher and yes you'll change the crystalline property of the metal. but the other big factor is the design of the wheel, if its a solid 5 spoke (chunky) it will take the process fine. if it has skinny parts to the wheel then they are the likely weak spot for heat fatigue. like the gt4 wheels which slim down towards the central hub, its where the spokes kink that they tend to break, and that's if they have been over fired.

[Carbon.Ninja]

At that price your looking at rota wheels, possible varstoen, in which case tarmac is your man. Enkei are off the cards. other unkown brands might be possible. buddyclub did some interesting wheels at a sensible price.

 

with regards to production methods I think you are over thinking it a little, its nice too know its been made well or to a certain standard, but at the end of the day none would secure BS kite marks or the TUF equivelant if they weren't suitable.

 

any wheel will break if you hit it hard enough

 

with regards to powder coating the temp range is fairly wide to still be within safe tolerances and any good wheel powder coater will know this. mostly they should be baked around oven temp, anything higher and yes you'll change the crystalline property of the metal. but the other big factor is the design of the wheel, if its a solid 5 spoke (chunky) it will take the process fine. if it has skinny parts to the wheel then they are the likely weak spot for heat fatigue. like the gt4 wheels which slim down towards the central hub, its where the spokes kink that they tend to break, and that's if they have been over fired.

I should have a look at tarmacsport or save a bit more or may have to save up more. ( As I just bought some suspension so now want to have wheels... Never ending.))

 

Although been looking at wheels in Japan.. Anyone have any idea on cost to bring a set across?

 

Good discussion and some interesting points. Achieving the mark will means the design is feasible and likely to be ok. The likes of TUV style testing have a small test sample size. Then they also have a wheel "Family" extension where based on worst case assumptions they don't have to test all wheels. For example, one wheel with different PCD and offset. Not sure they are require to test wheels from every mould either as it ran out of life. As each mould is ever so slightly different. On top, they are tested to any samples at time of submission to test. It could be the best case sample or in the middle of whatever. Therefore the question of margin remains. Not discrediting the merit of the standard/test but certainly it has its short fall.

 

Aside from testing, how the maker control the parameters and how robust the control is the key. For example mould temperature to ensure good flow and how the cooling is controlled for cast wheels. Porosity is almost unavoidable and the control of material is critical from furnace operation and type of casting employed. Method of detection and the equipment used is another area.

 

About the place where it breaks, you are right spoke closer to hub will tends to be crack starting point as that's the highly stressed area of a wheel, from fatigue and impact point of view. You will see that most wheels would have smaller spoke section as it move towards the rim flange and in hub area a lot more material for this reason. On the point of hardness, a wheel painted once and twice will see hardness has been raised. Of course like you mentioned pending on the temperature it is subject to.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Carbon.Ninja

[Carbon.Ninja]

Buddyclub SF looks interesting but they offer up to ET30...

 

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[Jetpilot]

I am with rt buddy, there are standards to be met and whilst they may not have the treatments you desire, there are plenty of good rims within your budget that arent going to explode into a thousand

pieces at the first sign of a pebble or pot hole, regardless of the manufacturing process.

 

If you want these manufacturing process you are going to have to up the budget or look for 2nd (good option) and then most of the decent outfits, volk/rays, ssr, work etc arent going to be knocking out concave stuff, your then into stuff like nessen, iforged which your looking at $1000 per wheel.

 

Plenty of folk running rota, japan racing, 7twenty for example without incident.