jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Well what started as an idea to do a simple 20 minute job of cleaning the throttle bodies is slowly becoming more of a nightmare. Apart from being rock solid to get the damn things off in the first place (earlier thread here: http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/106885-advice-wanted-on-removing-throttle-bodies/) I succesfully got them off and went on my merry way. Short version of the story: Had unplugged ECU and power supply to them, took them off. Used a load of carb cleaner, gunk poured off, look much more shiny, butterflies didn't feel as sticky as when removed (note was unplugged and completely removed from the garage before touching buttefly), wiped off excess carby, let them dry, all back on, hoses connected plastics reattached bla bla bla, jobs a good un. Was late at night so left the peddle dance resetting til this morning. Well did peddle dances, got the flashy CEL etc to make me think it was all hunky dorey, idle seemed to settle back down after the Idle Air Volume learn, maybe a little high but wasn't massively worried. Great I thought, she sounds healthy. Gone to fill up with Shells finest and whilst stopped at light idle decides it has got a mind of it's own. Bobbing around from 1500 to 2000 in a pulsating manner. Every time the idle comes down before bobbing up again, at the bottom of the needle travel, it sounds like ****. Have tried the reset again, and as before it seems to settle down, until I actually go anywhere and then it goes a bit nuts again. The couple of mile trip in a circle netted me only 8 mpg average (the counter had reset itself due to battery disconnect) and whilst I know it was a short trip with a cool engine this seems particularly low. Especially since I was hardly motoring it and I have never seen it this low yet. (I reset the mpg average every time I fill up) Naturally I am livid with myself. Have I done something awful here? I know there is the possibility to corrupt the ECU but I thought this was only possible if one did not disconnect the battery, which I did. Is it a case of just trying the resets again until it seems to be ok? I have no CEL or anything. Anyone got any advice? Am I potentially causing damage? I am supposed to be partaking in a 280 mile trip tomorrow and am now more than a little concerned. Comments welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Sounds like you are drawing in unmetered air. Check all your connections are tight and there's no splits in any intake pipework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Sounds like you are drawing in unmetered air. Check all your connections are tight and there's no splits in any intake pipework. Thanks, so that would be somewhere between the MAF and throttle body on each side correct? Just trying to narrow down my search space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Check any of the pipework you removed. Make sure any bolts etc are torqued up correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Check any of the pipework you removed. Make sure any bolts etc are torqued up correctly. Thanks for the suggestion, will have a coffee while the engine bay cools down a bit and then go out and have a nosey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Went over all the bits that were removed in getting the throttle bodies off, can't find any leaks, everything seems torqued up, tried the reset procedures again, no change in the outcome. I feel like I am being punished for trying to look after my car. Does any have any other suggestions. I read on the American forum that it's not always the case that the Idle Air learning takes. I am doing this via the peddle dance method rather than consult so I have no way of knowing whether it successfully completes or not I guess. It does the whole flashing CEL light then going solid etc. And when I then turn engine on the idle does initially drop before returning to crazy mode. Not a happy bunny right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattbowles Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Did you drop the gasket when you removed the throttle body/make sure it was reinstalled? Mine did this when the maf wasn't plugged in properly. My understanding Is that as long as you didn't move the valves while it's plugged on you should be good, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Did you drop the gasket when you removed the throttle body/make sure it was reinstalled? Mine did this when the maf wasn't plugged in properly. My understanding Is that as long as you didn't move the valves while it's plugged on you should be good, Hmmm, will go back out in a min and check the gaskets. MAFs should be all plugged in and fine etc. Gave these a clean the day before and she was running no issues. Up until about half an hour ago I was 100% sure that everything was fully unplugged before I touched a butterfly. I don't know if paranoia is now making me doubt myself somewhat. I'm still pretty sure that I didn't touch them. I keep getting the impression that the Idle Air Learning isn't taking for whatever reason. Which is annoying as it's a pain doing it manually a few times before it seems to work and then it doesn't actually solve the problem anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I'm fairly sure the peddle dance for this is an absolute bugger to do. Never had to do it myself but I'm sure it can take a few attempts to get the timings exactly right. Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Well the mystery deepens. I spent some time spraying around the hoses and throttle bodies and definitely can not find a leak. I tried all the resets again, and the whole flashy CEL to solid etc definitely goes through, and then when you start the engine the rpm tries to lower and settle down, but it is almost as if it gives up. Where the real mystery seems to be coming is with the following additional symptoms. After performing the Air Idle Learning and it decides to idle high, turning on the rear screen heater and the aircon makes the rpm drop and become more steady (I find this really bizarre as usually putting air con on increases rpm). The car also seems to become insanely hot in the engine bay, much hotter than when I park up after a spirited drive through Yorkshire on the way home where I'm normally enjoying the Yorkshire roads and would expect a bit of residual heat. I was wondering if it was possible that I might have introduced an air bubble into the cooling some how and this is causing issues? I really am stuck for what to try next. I'm guessing taking the misses to visit her family over the Easter break (530 mile round trip) is off the cards now. Appreciate any comments Edit: It also seems to be a little smokier out the back than I would expect. I am now starting to **** my pants a little. How can cleaning throttle bodies cause so much hassle!!! Edited March 24, 2016 by jowen7448 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattbowles Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 What did you use to clean the throttle bodies/intake/maf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 What did you use to clean the throttle bodies/intake/maf? Carb cleaner on throttle bodies with rag. Electrical contact cleaner on MAF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattbowles Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 That should all be OK. Sorry bud I'm all out of ideas. Someone much more knowledgeable will be along soon I'm sure. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 That should all be OK. Sorry bud I'm all out of ideas. Someone much more knowledgeable will be along soon I'm sure. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk No worries, keeping my fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bradders- Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 When you say spraying looking for leaks you mean like looking for bubbles because you know it will be sucking in not blowing out? Sounds to me like there's excessive air getting in. Make sure the intake pipe is on correctly as sometimes the bottom folds over when reinstalling. Make sure jubilee is tight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 When you say spraying looking for leaks you mean like looking for bubbles because you know it will be sucking in not blowing out? Sounds to me like there's excessive air getting in. Make sure the intake pipe is on correctly as sometimes the bottom folds over when reinstalling. Make sure jubilee is tight! Well I was listening out for any change in idle tone indicating something being sucked in as well as inspecting visually to see if I could see any signs of a leak. I am in for the night now but have made a note to recheck intake pipes and jubilee clips again, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 For a quick resolution I'd pm Zmanalex. He'll talk you through what to do (usually he'd of popped up by now). From memory there's no interaction with the cooling system. Putting ancillaries on will put the engine under electrical load so I'd expect a little wobble as the pulleys driving those systems take the strain. You definitely 100% got that MAF plugged in properly? You've not bent a pin in a connector or anything? Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 For a quick resolution I'd pm Zmanalex. He'll talk you through what to do (usually he'd of popped up by now). From memory there's no interaction with the cooling system. Putting ancillaries on will put the engine under electrical load so I'd expect a little wobble as the pulleys driving those systems take the strain. You definitely 100% got that MAF plugged in properly? You've not bent a pin in a connector or anything? Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk I will get in touch with ZMANALEX shortly. When you say no interaction with the cooling system I am now confused. This pic shows two hoses attached to the bottom of the throttle body. When I pulled these to get the throttle body out some liquid came out which smelled and looked like coolant. Should that not have been there? I appreciate that ancillaries change the load but to my own experience it has always been the case that they slightly increase the revs. In my case what happens is the revs drop by about 600-700 (definitely not a small wobble). A new strange symptom is that this also occurs if I turn the wheel (I know I know shouldn't dry steer but I'm trying anything and everything to narrow this down) I have taken a video which I will upload as soon as I can work out how to get it from my phone to my laptop. I have just unplugged battery, checked every hose and clip twice, checked the pins on the power to MAFs and throttle bodies, all seem present and straight. Even gave them a quick squirt of contact cleaner to make sure. Did the resets and bugger all difference. I am starting to reach my wits end. Never had so much trouble from some proactive maintenance. I think I might have to give someone in possibly more in the know a buzz. Wonder if RS tuning Leeds have the consult software as they are near to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 RS do have consult. They used to be traders here so know 350s well. Could also be worth asking if any members local to you would swap out their MAF with yours for a quick test. The MAF could have been damaged during cleaning. They're pretty sensitive things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 PM sent, but in a nutshell. I'm coming to Leeds today and I can let you plug your laptop in to my UpRev cable and laptop and let you read any codes and log some data if it will help? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 RS do have consult. They used to be traders here so know 350s well. Could also be worth asking if any members local to you would swap out their MAF with yours for a quick test. The MAF could have been damaged during cleaning. They're pretty sensitive things. Thanks for the suggestion. I may try that. I am reasonably confident the MAFs are fine as I did these the day before taking the throttle bodies out and everything was fine in the interim period. But as that is a potentially cheap elimination I may stick up a post asking if anyone is nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Another thing I'd try is stripping everything back down to the point where you were cleaning the throttle bodies. Then methodically put it back together again and see where you end up. Sounds daft, but sometimes doing things back through can solve a cause of an issue that you didn't know was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 PM sent, but in a nutshell. I'm coming to Leeds today and I can let you plug your laptop in to my UpRev cable and laptop and let you read any codes and log some data if it will help? PM replied to thanks mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Another thing I'd try is stripping everything back down to the point where you were cleaning the throttle bodies. Then methodically put it back together again and see where you end up. Sounds daft, but sometimes doing things back through can solve a cause of an issue that you didn't know was there. Will do this as soon as the engine bay has cooled back down a little having got up to temp for the Idle Air Learning Peddle dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowen7448 Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 bah of course it's Good Friday so noone on the phones at RS. I suspect they are shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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