GrahameJ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Do Wings work? By that I mean do they generate down-force? Well after an unscheduled test this morning I found out some of them do. After setting off in rush hour traffic, I noticed the red warning lamp in the dash showing the boot wasn't quite shut properly. I knew it would not be a problem though, as my genuine Nismo spoiler must weigh half a ton, and there was no chance of the boot opening further and my laptop bag, which had caused the problem, falling out. Anyway, with no chance of pulling over I carried on. Accelerating on a short stretch of dual carriageway, the light started flashing and went out, only to come back on again as I slowed behind another car on the motorway entry slip road. Once on the motorway the light started flashing again and went out at about 60mph. This cycle repeated until I got to work, where I could then see the boot wasn't closed on the catch properly. The upshot is that the wing was generating enough down-force at 60mph plus to force down the boot lid and close the sensor switch. Now if I could have got up to 100mph plus, would the boot have shut fully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Your spoiler doesn't create any downforce at all. Drag yes, downforce no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahameJ Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Ah, so it's a styling issue only then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Pretty much. Proper wings can reduce lift, but very very few actually add downforce, especially not without other body additions. Not a slight, I like that spoiler of yours and I don't often like spoilers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake ben taylor Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sorry Ekona but thats bollocks. The nismo wings do create downforce, the shape of the element they cant not. And anything that creates drag at the back like a flap also generates downforce but at the expense of high drag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 It's not bollocks. Go read about the difference between a spoiler and a wing. Also you might want to look up just how difficult it is to create downforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) To create anything more than token downforce a rear wing needs to sit in the air stream like this Or this Pete Edited March 3, 2016 by JetSet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1en Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I am certainly no expert but its all down to the shape weather it creates lift/downforce/neutral and how the air flows over/under it. The shape of a car naturally creates downforce because the air traveling over it has to travel faster and further than the air going underneath which pushes it into the road. A spoiler or wing can have a similar effect if shaped accordingly although i think most car spoilers are designed with looks (aesthetics) in mind and nothing to do with aero On the opposite end. If the spoiler is shaped where the air has to travel further underneath then it will actually create lift just like an aeroplane wing is engineered Back to OP. I think your boot was closing at speed due to the air travelling over the roof and nothing to do with spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake ben taylor Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The nismo spoilers utilise a proper aerofoil wing shape so work. Im aware of the difference and how each works. That porsche has its wing so high to avoud needing a 3d wing due to the diffent characteristics of the airflow down the boot and round the side of the car. Thats why apr wings are 3d and they advise mounting them quite low on the z. And yes Ive read up a LOT about it as a few on here can testify and building my own rear wing. The airflow down the back of the z is good, it stays attached all the way down and so even low spoilers work well What youre saying IS bollocks based on half truths 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Your spoiler doesn't create any downforce at all. Drag yes, downforce no. That's a spoiler and a wing though... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouthwash Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 What was the little thing that Audi put on the TT to stop it getting skittish at high speed? Did that create drag or downforce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahameJ Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 I didn't mean to start a war guys! I just noticed the speed related effect occurring on the boot lid, as a result of the fact the red light was bugging me when I noticed it after setting off. I used the term wing because that's what everybody seems to call them on here. Something is going on with the air flow, but I have to admit I haven't read up on any theory. Anyway I'm prepared to be enlightened, so carry on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Doesn't really relate to the OPs question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I didn't mean to start a war guys! I just noticed the speed related effect occurring on the boot lid, as a result of the fact the red light was bugging me when I noticed it after setting off. I used the term wing because that's what everybody seems to call them on here. Something is going on with the air flow, but I have to admit I haven't read up on any theory. Anyway I'm prepared to be enlightened, so carry on... You didn't really? According to Nissan the Nismo kit does create downforce as a package the wing alone I can't answer for but I would consider it making drag and downforce how much one can guess without figures or testing to back anything up. I saw a 370Z testing of the Nismo wing on youtube, gave some facts but not actual downforce numbers. *if any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cov350z Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 from what i can gather all wings, spoilers ( especially oem ones) will cause a little downforce unless they just a big flat airbrake ie bugatti, p1. . spoilers are named as such that they spoil the airflow on the back egde of the car thus creating negative air pressure behind the car mean the weight of the car and air pressure over it push the car lower at the rear as less resistance. big wings on the other hand put high enough (about same hight as roof maybe little lower) and they have a larger surface area result in the airflow over the roof taking an easier root over this surface than continuing down the boot as this air has less resistance ie no curve down the bootline it travels faster than the boot airflow and thus creates actual downforce on the rear of the car . both result in drag but benefit of drag vs downforce is decided as more rear grip mean power on the ground for a little more aero resistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake ben taylor Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Drag via a spoiler does create downforce as it creates a high pressure zone in front/on the spoiler. Thats the point of them, they just unfortunately have the cost of a lot of drag. Wings work the same way as an aeroplane wing but flipped upside down. High speed air is lowdr pressure than low speed air - bernoullis prinviple for those that want to google it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Highest amount of downforce at the lowest possible amount of drag = win win *don't forget to match with a solid lip and possibly a flat floor and a massively stupid diffuser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahameJ Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Err no - the original post was innocently made. One of the reasons I bought this Zed was because I liked the Nismo styling, and wasn't keen on the bare-arsed boot look, after following a black one without a wing/spoiler for a while one night, whilst the guys in Japan were still searching for a car for me. Edited March 3, 2016 by GrahameJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cov350z Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 also isnt the idea of a front lip/flatfloor to pull the front into the ground lifting rear (and thus the spoiler wing) into the airflow more pushing the rear down . this also depends on the suspension set up as if springs are too hard and or no damper ud need so much downforce to move it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-G- Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) From my uni days studying fluid dynamics (the pompous, older sibling of aerodynamics) we covered aerofoils and manipulating the "angle of attack" was an oft quoted phrase when we wanted a bigger Cd. Applying a greater angle of attack to aeronatical engineering means an increase in the coefficient of drag - apply it to something that doesn't fly and its exhibited as downforce. While its certainly true that not all spoilers will generate sufficient drag to create downforce - with the right engineering it is 100% possible to do so, so I wouldn't discount the possibility that a well designed spoiler does exactly that. Edited March 3, 2016 by -G- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I'm with Fake Ben and others thinking in similar lines. The naysayers are just imagining thinks on extreme scales like an F1 car. Remember the little experiment we all did as kids when that was driving and you stick your hand out and by changing the AOA it went up or down. When it when up we where inadvertently creating lift as the hand is shape like a tear drop = wing. Your hand felt lighter and carried by the air if you got it right and dad was going fast enough. While when it veered downward sharply it was primarily due to to drag and some downforce. When the car began to slow so much the I respective if what we did you hand came down or you had to physically keep it up and that was = stall. If the little hand can why wouldn't a wing designed by Nismo. Any properly designed wing will create DF. There will be some drag and depending on where it is positioned, the speed and other elements of the whole aero package can be effective even on a road car. It's all about trade offs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahameJ Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) So, at the risk of slowing the car down with drag, does the spoiler/wing help the car go around corners any better? If it does that then I'm happy. Edited March 4, 2016 by GrahameJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Yes, this guy looks like a bit of a plank but he explains things clearly. Edited March 4, 2016 by RobPhoboS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Tons more on YT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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