Brexit 23rd June..?

[Lexx]

Thus far the Team have left this running as it's an issue which effects us all.

But we will not hesitate to delete the entire thread if it gets any further out of hand.

 

You're all adults. Please act like it.

[bytespc]

Lock the thread the votes have been cast and counted now live with it.

 

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[gsexr]

I don`t think that its fair to consider UKIP voters as racist anymore than Tory voters are just rich posh boys and all Labour voters wear flat caps and have a whippet. Dont even start me on Liberal wearing sandals and eating lentils....

 

You have to accept that Nigel Farage was`nt even an official member of the leave campaign so dont go blaming him for the leave side lies.

 

Dianne Abbott tried to blame him for everything rather than have a go at her own party and Labour voters who also voted out.

 

Sometimes you have to get used to life not always giving you what you want and i fear that it is a bitter pill for all the young voters who wanted to stay in to swallow. Trust me this is only one of many disappointments you will suffer in life and then you will realise why we get more cynical as we get older.

 

Crack a beer, sit back and be thankful you had a choice to make.

Edited June 28, 2016 by gsexr

[Chesterfield]

Whether it's better to be in than out is clearly a point for continuing debate but you have to wonder what the result would have been if there hadn't been sooooo many lies told.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rendum-36641390

 

It's ridiculous that politicians can tell so many lies during a campaign and get away with it. I hope they've at least rendered themselves unelectable, but sadly I feel that they'll just carry on, BAU. The £350m figure wasn't a 'mistake' as the article puts it either - it was a lie.

 

Democracy.

 

The people that vote for farage should be shamed (not directly) but by association. Something like this:

REMOVED

 

 

or do you think it's a bit much

 

I think it's bit much and extremely offensive.... Surprised the forum admin have allowed you to post It to be honest

 

I think many have unfortunately become desensitised to it given how prolific this sort of thing now is.

 

Because some feel they are attacking what they perceive as "evil", then they think nothing of slinging around the terms racist and nazi.

[nievelc]

I think when you feel it is too far, it probably is. I am sorry. I was feeling rife with anger seeing footage of manchester and london and now realise my views were equally as extreme even in the other way.

 

That image does not represent the typical ukip supporter.

 

I will delete the post.

 

I still stand by farage being a vile human veing though

 

[WINKJ]

Whether it's better to be in than out is clearly a point for continuing debate but you have to wonder what the result would have been if there hadn't been sooooo many lies told.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rendum-36641390

 

It's ridiculous that politicians can tell so many lies during a campaign and get away with it. I hope they've at least rendered themselves unelectable, but sadly I feel that they'll just carry on, BAU. The £350m figure wasn't a 'mistake' as the article puts it either - it was a lie.

 

Democracy.

 

The people that vote for farage should be shamed (not directly) but by association. Something like this:

REMOVED

 

 

or do you think it's a bit much

 

I think it's bit much and extremely offensive.... Surprised the forum admin have allowed you to post It to be honest

 

I think many have unfortunately become desensitised to it given how prolific this sort of thing now is.

 

Because some feel they are attacking what they perceive as "evil", then they think nothing of slinging around the terms racist and nazi.

 

Totally agree, hence my reaction to the post - terrible really

[coldel]

1. What 5 or 6 EU based regulations have so vexed you and impacted you personally that you feel so angry towards the EU? Dont use google.

2. If we adopt the Norway model where we abide by EU regulations and adopt free movement of labour as part of the EEA would you feel like you have 'taken back control'?

 

Off the top of my head, it's not specific to legislation but,

 

Fishing quotas, all but killed many towns in the UK just because the Spanish and Dutch were running out of their own fish. Dress it up as sustainability and nobody argues.

 

Farming subsidies and quotas, two fold pushes up food prices and kills farming income. Even to this day there are tons of vegetables ploughed back into UK fields because they are not allowed to sell any more into supermarkets.

 

Climate change legislation (which they knew from the outset were set at unachievable levels) has massively inreased fuel bills in the UK. It's blamed on the energy companies, but the levies and taxes add alost 30% to bills in some cases.

 

The EU civil servants awarding themselves massive perks and breaks over and above that of any EU citizen.

 

Examples:

 

In the UK we are having to review the pensions of teachers and nurses etc. EU civil servants meanwhile get up to 70% on a final salary scheme, regardless of the fact they are unsustainable.

 

They don't publish accounts. Even a small business in the UK has to lodge accounts with companies house, never mind councils and local authorities. The EU meanwhile disclose nothing about their expenditure and staff pay. Even though they are publicly funded.

 

In the UK we have stripped child benefit of £1040 per year for people earning over £50k. In the EU however you get a £7k per year allowance per child.

 

In the UK we tax at a basic rate of 20%. Tax rates for EU civil servants start at 8%. They do not publish earnings and bands. It is only thanks to leaked documents that we know 10,000 people employed in the EU offices take home more than our prime minister thanks to these tax breaks.

 

The list of reasons goes on. And you'll note not a single one revolved around immigration.

 

I expect anyone who has a say in legislation in our country to be both accountable and have transparent public accounts.

 

And that is a completely fair response, how many other people can put the same level of thought forwards?

[Paul K]

Can one of the mods take down the quote of that picture. It pops up on my screen when on tapatalk and sends the wrong message while I am sat in the train. I'm not a farage supporter but I don't need that popping up on my screen

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rtbiscuit]

I'm not a young voter nor am I old. But the young voice not being heard has to be partly put at the feet of the young. With only about 30% turnout those that feel deflated should be looking at the 70% who didn't bother. My students have been discussing this and any that voted out. Have been lambasted by their peers. And surprisingly higher amount at least in my area voted leave.

 

With regards to the racism stance I find it ironic that the remain voters can keep a straight face when they wanted to stay in a system that promoted free movement, but was building fences and closing borders, gassing migrants and refugees at borders. Not only that they have been making deals with turkey to ship them all back to turkey and pay turkey to keep them there. Yes that sounds like the model system to me.

 

It must be a long way up on some peoples moral high horses. Maybe they can't see all the facts as clearly.

 

And if you thought we would have any sway in that, they have no interest in letting people in. They're just hoping they'll all get bored and go home from turkey.

[nievelc]

Can one of the mods take down the quote of that picture. It pops up on my screen when on tapatalk and sends the wrong message while I am sat in the train. I'm not a farage supporter but I don't need that popping up on my screen

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Sorry

[coldel]

I agree get shot of that photo please, its offensive.

 

And back on topic, this is about an historic economic and political event which will shape generations - this is by far more important than any general election vote. Be a shame to lose 80+ pages of debate...

[rtbiscuit]

I daren't mention it at work, seems the majority of teachers were remainers and apparently devastated over the vote. I've heard the words, angry livid and mortified.

[zxrob]

Amazes me, folk in the remain campaign harping on about conditions the UK will have to face outside of the Eu to trade in the single market, don't we have to meet certain conditions already to do exactly that already

 

Rob

Edited June 28, 2016 by zxrob

[nievelc]

The issue wasn't about conditions that had to be met, but what it means to be united for most.

 

Pulling out of the eu was essentially like saying im not paying the communal charge to keep our block of flats in good order because if I put 200quid away each month I will be better off in my rosey flat while those that can barely afford to pay will fall to dilapidation. When in the metaphoric reality we will all look bad in the end.

 

So much was gained by the eu on a global scale in terms of peace and to a degree prosperity its been a shame to throw it away.

 

 

 

[nievelc]

And to extend on the analogy which the eu did, in times of need - flooding up north or the broken flat roof that flooded number 9 it was covered by the eu or at least had a lions share of relief.

 

Admins please delete the pic i posted earlier, I have tried to removed the link from meme generator but it is still there

[Chesterfield]

Leaked from Poland and now being picked up by other media, are reports of France and Germany testing the water on a European superstate.

 

What are people's views on this? Effectively a move towards complete border removal and the harmonising of tax and criminal legislation and a single Army etc to then be centred in Brussels.

 

http://m.sputniknews.com/europe/20160628/1042075609/poland-france-germany

 

Also, I'd be interested to see an explanation of Martin Schulz's comment:

 

"The British have violated the rules. It is not the #EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".

 

This isn't sounding all that democratic to me.

[Adrian@TORQEN]

What in the world is happening

 

My next door neighbour on LBC:

https://audioboom.com/boos/4757039-german-immigrant-s-heartbreaking-call-to-james-in-full

 

We moved from there last year in December, but a very nice quiet area.

 

Then this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/polish-girl-dagmara-prybysz-who-complained-of-classroom-racism-is-found-dead-at-school-in-cornwall-a7037771.html

 

and this:

 

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-28/halal-butchers-targeted-in-petrol-bomb-attack/

 

Another Romanian lady friend married with an English guy had their bakery and farm set on fire, next night they had their car vandalised, all glass broken.

 

Not trying to exaggerate or being alarmist, but what is this country becoming?

 

Other videos on Channel 4, too:

 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153850480776939&id=6622931938

 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153853027841939&id=6622931938

[Ricey]

What in the world is happening

 

My next door neighbour on LBC:

https://audioboom.com/boos/4757039-german-immigrant-s-heartbreaking-call-to-james-in-full

 

We moved from there last year in December, but a very nice quiet area.

 

Then this:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/polish-girl-dagmara-prybysz-who-complained-of-classroom-racism-is-found-dead-at-school-in-cornwall-a7037771.html

 

and this:

 

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-28/halal-butchers-targeted-in-petrol-bomb-attack/

 

Another Romanian lady friend married with an English guy had their bakery and farm set on fire, next night they had their car vandalised, all glass broken.

 

Not trying to exaggerate or being alarmist, but what is this country becoming?

 

Other videos on Channel 4, too:

 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153850480776939&id=6622931938

 

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153853027841939&id=6622931938

I didn't know you lived in Chester? Thought you were darrrrn saaaf?

 

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/tearful-chester-radio-caller-tells-11536248

 

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[Ricey]

In addition to that I have teeny tiny doubts about the Chester one.

 

Like why call the German embassy and the CAB but not the police.

 

ALL of her friends refuse to be friends with her now after a poxy vote and the entire Street is telling her to go back to Germany.

 

Stinks a little of the musings of a local nutter.

 

Very sad either way like but bear in mind how the media does love a dramatic story without looking into anything.

 

That said I hold imagine the small percentage of right wing head units will be giving it rizz for a while.

 

Quite frankly the rest of the country if observing it should be stepping in.

 

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[Adrian@TORQEN]

Wife is calling her after 9am, still early. Apparently she sold her house after we left and moved in a flat, if is the same lady. I just hope is not her, as she's good as gold!

 

Either way, such situations I hope they are throughly investigated and dealt with by Police!

Edited June 29, 2016 by Adrian@TORQEN

[coldel]

Leaked from Poland and now being picked up by other media, are reports of France and Germany testing the water on a European superstate.

 

What are people's views on this? Effectively a move towards complete border removal and the harmonising of tax and criminal legislation and a single Army etc to then be centred in Brussels.

 

http://m.sputniknews...-france-germany

 

Also, I'd be interested to see an explanation of Martin Schulz's comment:

 

"The British have violated the rules. It is not the #EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".

 

This isn't sounding all that democratic to me.

 

Whether this is true or not (and most do turn out to be made up), I wouldn't be surprised if Brexit actually causes this sort of feeling. We were one of a handful of countries holding this sort of thing back, and we wouldn't have remained in if they had gone down this route - although the government supported remain any government in power knows the UK public would not go down a real draconian route of complete integration which is why Cameron look to seek assurances we could opt out of such a thing. We didn't need a vote to activate article 50, we could do that at any time. So even if the EU went power mad, we could have walked away at any point even if we voted Remain last week.

 

Starting to hear a few disturbing stories even here in London where we are meant to be more cosmopolitan, about 'British' people abusing anyone who has a non British accent, girl in the office has just walked in and sat down in tears after some xenophobic abuse on the bus. And what a brave bunch us British are so those who stood by and let someone do it to her. I wonder how much of this is going on that's unreported.

[Toon Chris]

Racist actions and violence always follow this sort of upset, but thankfully they do tend to calm down - either that or they have been there all the time but the media doesn't bother taking such a high-profile look at them. There are always some extremists who feel legitimised by any political upheaval. I wonder if they realise they are in the same category as ISIS i.e. extremist, racist, violent and considered as the lowest form of humanity by their actions.

 

Rants and stream of consciousness head-clearing follow, probably not making a huge amount of sense as I've only just woken up:

 

On a separate note, I'm interested in what is going on with the EU president and Scotland at the moment. How come the 'UK' is not allowed to discuss any terms at all with the EU until we invoke article 50 but Scotland is allowed to have a cosy pre-chat with them about joining up (or not leaving depending on your perspective).

It's ridiculous. Scotland voted as part of the UK and to say they can somehow choose to partition their vote away from the UK is not a supportable argument. Where do you draw the line at geographical boundaries? London as a separate state still in the EU. Hell, my street voted predominately Remain so can we stay in the EU when the next-door village leaves? The SNP needs to shut up and hold the Union together, not be the final iceberg for this particular Titanic. All this separation is simply insane. Why don't we all buy a big rocket and fly off into space where we don't have to interact with anyone who isn't 'us' - (oh wait, we kind of have, haven't we?).

 

Separate note #2. It seems crystal clear that the EU will not relax its freedom of movement rule when working out a trade deal with the UK. This is an impasse as if the UK government accepts a trade deal with free movement it would be political suicide for them - imagine the protests!

So what is the chance that the EU will relax its rule if it means the UK will stay in the EU? If the government can say that immigration is controlled and we get some other concessions they can perhaps legitimately say that that a new referendum should be called. That's unlikely too as the concessions would have to be very big and again the EU won't relax it's freedom of movement rule.

Net result? We are going to get one hell of a cr*p trade deal with Europe

Edited June 29, 2016 by Toon Chris

[coldel]

ScotLond!

[-G-]

Racist actions and violence always follow this sort of upset, but thankfully they do tend to calm down - either that or they have been there all the time but the media doesn't bother taking such a high-profile look at them. There are always some extremists who feel legitimised by any political upheaval. I wonder if they realise they are in the same category as ISIS i.e. extremist, racist, violent and considered as the lowest form of humanity by their actions.

 

Rants and stream of consciousness head-clearing follow, probably not making a huge amount of sense as I've only just woken up:

 

On a separate note, I'm interested in what is going on with the EU president and Scotland at the moment. How come the 'UK' is not allowed to discuss any terms at all with the EU until we invoke article 50 but Scotland is allowed to have a cosy pre-chat with them about joining up (or not leaving depending on your perspective).

It's ridiculous. Scotland voted as part of the UK and to say they can somehow choose to partition their vote away from the UK is not a supportable argument. Where do you draw the line at geographical boundaries? London as a separate state still in the EU. Hell, my street voted predominately Remain so can we stay in the EU when the next-door village leaves? The SNP needs to shut up and hold the Union together, not be the final iceberg for this particular Titanic. All this separation is simply insane. Why don't we all buy a big rocket and fly off into space where we don't have to interact with anyone who isn't 'us' - (oh wait, we kind of have, haven't we?).

 

Separate note #2. It seems crystal clear that the EU will not relax its freedom of movement rule when working out a trade deal with the UK. This is an impasse as if the UK government accepts a trade deal with free movement it would be political suicide for them - imagine the protests!

So what is the chance that the EU will relax its rule if it means the UK will stay in the EU? If the government can say that immigration is controlled and we get some other concessions they can perhaps legitimately say that that a new referendum should be called. That's unlikely too as the concessions would have to be very big and again the EU won't relax it's freedom of movement rule.

Net result? We are going to get one hell of a cr*p trade deal with Europe

 

This again.

 

One of the key arguments made against independence in 2014 was that in order to stay in the EU, Scotland needed to vote No. That wasn't a small part of thier campaign, it was a central pillar, as was the UK's AAA credit rating, turning family into foreigners - you name it they used it as a justification to keep the UK together.

 

Its very easy for you to assume it's cut and dried - that England & Wales voted to leave so everyone else has to as well, but that's not the feeling up here - especially after the last few days.

 

The reality is, the EU see Scotland as an ally who will join/remain within the EU without England and take with it the geographical portion of the North Sea that Europe benefits so much from, namely Fishing & Oil. In German a this is known as Realpolitik.

 

There will be dissenters within the EU such as Spain who are embattled with the likes of Catalonia & the Basques seeking independece, but when it's explained to them that the North Sea they have enjoyed for the last 40 years risks becoming closed to them when the UK leaves, Realpolitik will take over again.

[Stuggerz]