Brexit 23rd June..?

[GappySmeg]

Wiping away the tears, picking my chin up, looking forward......... the next big challenge is the fact that our civil servants now have to re-write huge swathes of our legal framework (lucky them). Best we all retain our new-found obsession with politics and focus it on ensuring they don't f&*k it up!!!

[coldel]

Wiping away the tears, picking my chin up, looking forward......... the next big challenge is the fact that our civil servants now have to re-write huge swathes of our legal framework (lucky them). Best we all retain our new-found obsession with politics and focus it on ensuring they don't f&*k it up!!!

 

Ha, what say do we have really?

[TomBorehamUK]

How many younger people bothered to vote? Usually they are the ones that do not turn out...

 

 

[GappySmeg]

Wiping away the tears, picking my chin up, looking forward......... the next big challenge is the fact that our civil servants now have to re-write huge swathes of our legal framework (lucky them). Best we all retain our new-found obsession with politics and focus it on ensuring they don't f&*k it up!!!

 

Ha, what say do we have really?

 

Hmmm, I'll have to get back to you on that

[Jewell]

£10M salary is nothing if you made your company £10Bn.

 

True. My old boss was paid £600 million in 9 years for his trading skills.

 

If you don't think it's possible, I will happily put up a link. It might have even been £900 million.

[Jewell]

Live with what, no one knows what the outcome will be yet, jeez, its 24 hours, not armaggedon.

 

But we can surely all agree that things aren't going to be better for any of us for at least the next 5 years are they?!

 

I've spent my 20's not having enough money, and just as i get into my 30's, buy my first house, have got enough money to be happy - the rug gets pulled from under me. Now i've got a decade of financial uncertainty all over again. I wish I didnt buy my house last year now, and that I would have waited until next year when the values would have plummeted and mortgages will be cheaper.

 

Instead i'm going to be stuck in my house with negative equity, unable to remortgage.

 

5 years is nothing in the grand scheme of life. It's called tough love and personally, you were kinda silly not to wait until after the referendum.

 

This is a mini recession, not a 2006-2010 recession.

 

So what if the market drops for 6 months, people don't like change and it was shown today in the market. After every storm, the birds will eventually come out singing, it's the cycle of life.

 

The financial cycle of life, look at how many recessions we've had and what's caused them. You have to financially plan for a recession which happens every 20-30 years, some worse than others.

 

On the flipside, lots of money was made today on the markets so a bloody marvellous day for some!

[Ekona]

So a full recession lasts four years, but a mini recession lasts five?

 

Negative equity is only an issue if you're planning on selling, really. I only bought last year too, but I'm not worried as I'm here for the long term.

[-G-]

With 62% of Scots voting to remain EU citizens I see little appetite here to "wait and see" what a hapless, third rate Westminster politician can negotiate out of what is arguably the worst decision taken in the last 40 years. Even Juncker is keen to get started.

 

Many people were swayed by the uncertainty of Scotland's continued EU membership and voted no during the independence referendum, the sheer scale of people I've seen today lamenting a second chance is considerable & I haven't seen a single media pundit or politician with an ounce of credibility publicly state there isn't a mandate for a second vote given the circumstances.

 

The UK is finished, its a matter of when, not if. Cameron will be remembered as the prime minister who destroyed two unions in one term.

[Adrian@TORQEN]

[Ekona]

He'll be remembered as the PM who let it happen, but make no mistake it's the people of the U.K. who destroyed the unions. You get what you ask for, and in the long term it might just be for the best.

[Bockaaarck]

What we should be doing now is being typically British. We should pull our socks up, roll up our sleeves and just get on with it. There's nothing to be gained by sitting still, we need to get moving and get moving quickly!

 

 

What I'm worried we'll get, is a Japan style deflationary spiral. Which may end up impacting us for many years

Edited June 24, 2016 by Bockaaarck

[rtbiscuit]

has everybody forgotten that this vote was in general just an opinion pole, its not legally binding, someone down the line could turn round and say, we had a think and decided its to dangerous so we're going to stay. we also haven't initiated article 50 and until we do we're still in Europe. we have 3 months of stability as everyone know nothing will happen until their is new leadership. it could be delay further with an emergency general election by Christmas, especially with the possibility of change at the top of the opposition.

 

it may well not happen as we plan, Europe could self implode before we leave with others pulling out. it could see the EU collapse and the countries coming back together in a similar version to the EEC.

 

so many variables so many paths it can't really be predicted. it needs people to get on with it and also let it play out. carefully moving forward without making any knee jerk reactions.

 

Le penn could use this to force a French referendum if there is enough support the current French establishment could end up losing to le penn if she offers a referendum if she's voted in. we could see a domino effect in other EU countries, we could see the treat of no decent deals with the UK completely undermined.

 

if the EU collapses why would Scotland leave the UK to join an imploding sun.

 

is Scotland in a financial position to go it alone I;'m not sure the SNP wanted it this early, I don't think they're ready for it yet.

[marzman]

Live with what, no one knows what the outcome will be yet, jeez, its 24 hours, not armaggedon.

 

Instead i'm going to be stuck in my house with negative equity, unable to remortgage.

 

5 years is nothing in the grand scheme of life. It's called tough love and personally, you were kinda silly not to wait until after the referendum.

 

 

I was silly for buying a house 12 months ago?? What planet are you on you smug prat??

 

Negative equity is only an issue if you're planning on selling, really. I only bought last year too, but I'm not worried as I'm here for the long term.

 

Negative equity is an issue when you've got a 90% mortgage and you need minimum 10% equity in order to be able to remortgage, otherwise you get stuck paying the ridiculous SVR to the tune of £1500 per month!!

 

I can afford to pay it, but i dont wanna. And if we hadn't have voted to leave I had the financial plans in place to not ever have to pay it, but now it's out of my hands.

Edited June 24, 2016 by marzman

[coldel]

Just back from some beers, with a guy who voted out and a guy who wanted to stay. It was interesting...

 

The other guy who voted stay accused him of economic vandalism. And then challenged him to state what positive he expected out of the decision which he answered 'fed up of federalism' which when asked to explain he couldn't.

 

Sad thing is that we are meant to be known as a liberal, open minded and progressive culture and this feels like a step back for me. There is no economic benefit to be had ( a Norway agreement puts us back where we are now except we cannot influence the decision enforced upon us) and now Europe thinks we are a bunch of closed minded racists (which of course we are not but that perception is now out there).

 

Bit weird that so many friends and family are so divided on this issue. Not comfortable with it at all.

[Kieran O'Quick]

Just back from some beers, with a guy who voted out and a guy who wanted to stay. It was interesting...

 

The other guy who voted stay accused him of economic vandalism. And then challenged him to state what positive he expected out of the decision which he answered 'fed up of federalism' which when asked to explain he couldn't.

 

Sad thing is that we are meant to be known as a liberal, open minded and progressive culture and this feels like a step back for me. There is no economic benefit to be had ( a Norway agreement puts us back where we are now except we cannot influence the decision enforced upon us) and now Europe thinks we are a bunch of closed minded racists (which of course we are not but that perception is now out there).

 

Bit weird that so many friends and family are so divided on this issue. Not comfortable with it at all.

 

Emotion and instinct have played a big part in this vote. Life is not just about rationality and facts. What a person might see as rational economic facts are actually their opinions at that moment.

 

Accepting that you think this way will help you understand the weirdness you see in others.

[coldel]

Oh I accept it, most of my family were in the Leave camp. This was an economic vote but some people saw it as something else, and tried in no way to understand what they were voting for. That really is unfortunate. And I would disagree, life is about making your way in the best way possible, I understand that people took a stand against the EU, but when asked to articulate it are generally left wanting, by some margin.

Edited June 24, 2016 by coldel

[Juggalo]

There is no economic benefit to be had

 

I don't think anybody can claim that at the moment, do you, really? The Experts were divided. Truth is, they haven't a clue.

[coldel]

So why vote out? What was so offensive about the EU that half the country decided to go? I still don't hear a coherent answer. If its not immigration, not that the EU was holding back the UK economy, what was it?

 

Why has no one even questioned that the 100 day plan the Leave campaign put out on their website a week before the vote been completely disregarded by Boris Johnson when he said lets do nothing now. Apparently we were meant to in the first 100 days have enacted the Article 50, raised spending on the NHS by £100m a week and reduced fuel bills, within 24 hours all that is now not happening - yet we all sit here doing nothing - all the propositions were a joke.

 

I was actually up for voting out, and wanted a reason to, the actions of political people in such a short space of time have confirmed that there were more personal agendas on the committee than thoughts on the benefits of the country which is why I decided not to. Personally I feel completely disengaged from the whole thing - as you might be able to tell I felt passionately about this being a well thought through process but it seems like so many people decided regardless.

Edited June 24, 2016 by coldel

[Kieran O'Quick]

The thing is you seem very sure on your position based on economic argument. A lot of people will look at the same economic "facts" and interpret them differently.

 

For example, Britain is the 5th biggest economy in the world everyone says. Well that fact could be the basis of a strong argument for something or other. But if you don't accept the concept of interminable compound interest you might say actually Britain is the 5th most screwed up country in the world because of the debt it's carrying.

 

Who is right? Just accept it's opinion. I appreciate the effort you make to interpret stuff.

[coldel]

Aye its a fair comment. Whilst we remain in a flux, who is going to take the risk? I was sat with the MD of an energy firm tonight who already said multiple billion pound deals are now on hold. Whilst we sit here trying to muddle our way through this we lose ground on recovering the economy, we were on the way back every economic indicator showed that, now we have to wait 2 years for trade deals to be sorted, it could end up being much longer, in which time investment will be tentative, growth must slow, jobs and salaries must be impacted and all of that is not good news. If anyone can show me a clear example of where a countries economy was in flux and they did alright out of it I am happy to take that on board.

 

So the question goes out again, if we adopt the Norway model, which means adhering to EU regulation and being part of the EEA where freedom of movement is a given, what have we voted for?

[Kieran O'Quick]

The image for me today was seeing a Romanian woman breaking down in tears at our local Caff. "Thay send me out" she wailed. Some natives put an arm around her and said she'd be fine as she was here already. That the natives were a couple of locally known disability cheats added poignancy to the moment. It was really touching stuff, I have to say.

 

Then she said "what about all my grand children?..."

 

The working girl behind the counter wasn't impressed at that point. Speaking to her, she said how she had never voted in her life (mid 30s) till yesterday. Brought her own pen too.

[Kieran O'Quick]

If anyone can show me a clear example of where a countries economy was in flux and they did alright out of it I am happy to take that on board.

 

So the question goes out again, if we adopt the Norway model, which means adhering to EU regulation and being part of the EEA where freedom of movement is a given, what have we voted for?

 

Iceland?

 

The problem is that it should never have got this far in the first place. Instead of leaving we should be just rejecting the further integration stuff that came up a few years ago that nobody noticed.

[Juggalo]

So why vote out? What was so offensive about the EU that half the country decided to go? I still don't hear a coherent answer. If its not immigration, not that the EU was holding back the UK economy, what was it?

 

 

This guy nails most of it. I don't agree with everything he says, but most of it I do.

If you're not too Brexit fatigued, it's well worth 10 minutes

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

[coldel]

I sat and watching on facebook as a woman who was born and bred here who has claimed benefits all her life, with three kids, and a council house all funded by the state, with a husband who was unemployed, who spent Friday fishing, put a union jack on her profile picture saying 'proud to be british' and well done on voting out. Thing is, benefits numbers show there are ten of those sorts of people born here for every one of those immigrants. Its pointless trying to put those individual cases forwards as an example. Actually most immigrants are of a younger working age and their tax payments are funding our ageing population doing jobs British people have no interest in.

[coldel]

So why vote out? What was so offensive about the EU that half the country decided to go? I still don't hear a coherent answer. If its not immigration, not that the EU was holding back the UK economy, what was it?

 

 

This guy nails most of it. I don't agree with everything he says, but most of it I do.

If you're not too Brexit fatigued, it's well worth 10 minutes

 

http://www.theguardi...ity-westminster

 

I actually skim read it in 1 minute, and its about bang on. No denying that Thatcher started the class divide that has never been addressed. That said, the opportunities have always been there for those that have the application, as a country we often hold up as a testament to how great we are when the little guy becomes a great guy, but thats there for all of use to achieve, if a polish guy comes in as a builder and undercuts you, you have to respond, its a global economy and you have to think a bit harder about business rather than just expect government policy to provide artificial protectionist measures.