Brexit 23rd June..?

[HaydnH]

I'm starting to edge toward leave. I don't think the economy will be effected too much either way, but the more I learn about how the people in power in the EU aren't actually voted for the more I think we should leave and regain some democracy.

[Ekona]

Which people are not voted for?

[HaydnH]

IIRC: EC, ECJ (plus other courts), ECB, ECA.

[Ekona]

Same as here then, really. We don't vote for our courts, nor our banks, nor our civil servants.

[Floydbax]

This was shared in social media, interesting also a little barking

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Betsy M MacKay

14 April · Forres ·

 

I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation, that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you! They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the unipolar world (New World Order) by creating a “world company,†initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),

Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.

And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

[Ekona]

Tinfoil hat stuff. Absolutely zero basis in fact or common sense.

 

If it's so secret, then how comes they know who attends?!

[JetSet]

Same as here then, really. We don't vote for our courts, nor our banks, nor our civil servants.

 

It;s the same at council level too, the people with the real power are the unelected senior executives. A couple of examples, 3 times our councilors threw out a planning application for a gypsy camp on green belt land a few miles from here against the planning departments advice and eventually the planners pushed it through. Within a week of the planning being approved the council had to put in place an enforcement notice when the gypsies started tearing down trees and generally flouting the planning permissions, it was exactly what the councilors said would happen. Planning also pushed through a very unpopular landfill that also was rejected by councilors 3 times at least.

 

Pete

[coldel]

Tinfoil hat stuff. Absolutely zero basis in fact or common sense.

 

If it's so secret, then how comes they know who attends?!

 

Yes, pinch of salt and all that, probably about on par with the sort of stuff I get in my email about having a billionty dollars in a Nigerian bank account.

[Floydbax]

Tinfoil hat stuff. Absolutely zero basis in fact or common sense.

 

If it's so secret, then how comes they know who attends?!

 

Errr It's the meeting that is secret, as in private

[Ekona]

So it's not secret at all, then.

 

Again, it's just tinfoil hat nonsense.

[coldel]

Im going to make something up, share it on FB, wait for someone gullible enough to share it as the truth and watch it spread and be posted up on a forum as something believable that others are meant to take notice of. Seriously, crap like this that pops up on social sites...come on, we can do better than reading anything into that.

[Floydbax]

So it's not secret at all, then.

 

Again, it's just tinfoil hat nonsense.

 

No, the contents of what goes on at the meeting is not open to the public, that makes it secret, not the fact that there's a meeting and these people attend!! - I did say it was a 'bit' barking.

[Ekona]

Fair enough, but how is that different from 99% of other meetings?

 

Rhetorical question, sorry.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ekona

[coldel]

The content of most meetings are secret? We don't get a public dossier in the press each day about what Cameron says in his meetings each day?

[Ekona]

Again though, where is Corbyn? Where is Sturgeon? Their silence is pitiful.

[HaydnH]

Again though, where is Corbyn? Where is Sturgeon? Their silence is pitiful.

 

Sturgeon's been quite vocal: http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=sturgeon&filter=news&suggid=

 

I actually agree with her points on the negative campaigning, it's really putting me off voting to stay! If all the remain camp can do is try and scare us out of our wits with completely outrageous arguments it makes me feel there's some ulterior motive that they're hiding for staying.

[Ekona]

One EU-related article from her in the last week is rubbish. Both her and Corbyn should be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Cameron over this issue, but they won't because they're terrified for their political careers. Cowards.

 

I think the negativity has been just as bad on both sides, tbh. It's terrible politics either way, as both camps have far more positive things to promote instead. Doesn't make the headlines though.

[HaydnH]

I think the negativity has been just as bad on both sides, tbh. It's terrible politics either way, as both camps have far more positive things to promote instead. Doesn't make the headlines though.

 

 

True, I quite like the comment on BBC: Sometimes this debate can feel a little like "my plague of frogs is worse than your plague of frogs".

[Ekona]

:lol:

[coldel]

It's because the negativity in the Scottish referendum won through...so both sides playing on that now...for me the negativity isn't the issue, it's people so passionately in favour one way or the other based on reading the Sun newspaper which I find shocking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rtbiscuit]

They rolled out camerons advisor today for the out camp, I wonder if in the last week they'll bring in oposition politicians mums to set their banners in one camp or the other.

 

last week it was the ex mayor of new York in favour of staying.

 

lucky us we have 4 more weeks of band standing on both sides and its only going to get more hyped as the date arrives.

 

I did like the fact that Eddie Izzard has been touring the country getting young people enthused to vote as it will have a massive impact on them either way they should be voting.

 

If I'm honest i think they should have lowered the vote to 16 for this as its going to have a massive impact on all generatios but them more so as they'll live longer

[Ekona]

16 year olds should never be allowed to vote, they're far too stupid and easily influenced.

 

I'm not saying all adults are sensible, but as a general percentage we're safer with over 18s. I'd actually rather see an IQ test being a prerequisite to being allowed to vote, but that's a different story.

[mouthwash]

they should be voting.

 

 

Not that I'm singling you out or anything but one thing I don't get is, why are we encouraged to vote about things we do not understand? I reckon if you went and asked the majority of people in the town I live in what their opinion is on the vote you'll get them repeating the sh1t they've been shoveled by the people in a position to influence them (people with things to gain from being either in or out). Or they will be voting based on their prejudices or what the weather is like that day.

 

This sort of choice shouldn't be for the everyman on the street to decide, it should actually be left down to a committee of intellectuals that can actually make an informed, unbiased, media absent decision. Not the guy that read in the Daily Mail about the latest wave of Muslims entering the country and the reason why they're behind everything wrong in his life.

 

I for one won't be voting because no matter how much I read and become informed about the situation, I do not understand or comprehend the scale and impact of my choice... How can I? I'm not an economist nor a politician. I reckon most people who will be ticking one box or the other won't either... I think it's a shame that those people could be sealing our fate.

 

Obviously there will be people on here who will be upset or disappointed at my comments, those that assume they're in the know (a few actually might be) but I'd wager all the literature they have access to is what the ones publishing it want them to have.

 

The other way to look at it is, it's a 50/50... So we've got a chance we might just accidentally vote for the right option.

[Floydbax]

it should actually be left down to a committee of intellectuals that can actually make an informed, unbiased, media absent decision

 

 

In the past few days we have had the Chancellor, Osbourne quoting results of findings from these types of groups you suggest and today Cameron was trying to scare us with telling us our holidays are going to cost more, while standing next to O'Leary of Ryanair, who coincidentally also came out today saying that flight prices are due to fall!! Honestly, you couldn't make up that kind of duality.

The Chancellor was claiming on Sunday that when we leave house prices are going to fall. The latest in the aim to scare the general public who just listen to the media. The figures used to come to this conclusion are pure conjecture. They are based on already projected UK growth figures (which are ALWAYS wrong and constantly adjusted) being less than forecast figures they have expressly chosen as 'worst case scenario' that they can get away with saying and the percentage difference between those figures being given as the 'loss' - It's total bull. This is assuming their economic model is a good one in the first place and it is indeed a good thing for this kind of economic growth. My own opinion is that that kind of economic policy increases inflation and it's not a good thing for the majority of the population, but that's more my political and social position.

[rtbiscuit]

@mouthwash, everyone is entitled to an opinion. personally I feel a lot of people sacrificed a lot to give us the vote, back in the old days just the gentryed folk were allowed to vote, then the sufferage movement and 2 world wars. I personally think voting should be compulsory for all.

 

1. you can't complain if you haven't voted. if you don't like whats happening or happens but you didn't vote well you can't really complain.

2. @Ekona 16 year olds are no more stupid or influenced then any other demographic just look at the sun, mirror etc.

3. if everyone doesn't vote how can the vote be representative of the population. its both the advantage and disadvantage of democracy.

4. all votes should have a none of the above, it at least allows for those disaffected to be actually counted. not voting in protest just lets people get away with it.