Brexit 23rd June..?

[Flex]

Col!! You got a like from Dan! Time to retire

[coldel]

[Flex]

I love that!! Just had a proper giggle.

 

I love picard too.

[Ekona]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

[coldel]

Big Likes all round!

[coldel]

Boris weighing in with his usual garbled patter, Obama ruffling English patriots...its all finally starting to take off now!

[Stutopia]

I have no idea why some corners have wet their collective knickers over Obama daring to speak on US Trade deals.

 

WHAT RIGHT HAS HE GOT TO SPEAK OF THE US?

- confused of Royal Tunbridge Wells

 

 

 

Presumably the other lot would have been outraged if he'd said sorting it out would be a 5 minute job!

[RobPhoboS]

I'm still voting out.

I have zero cares about propaganda either way.

[Flex]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

 

more like #teamreacharound

[coldel]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

 

more like #teamreacharound

 

Stay on topic

 

I *think* I am going to vote stay - still the Leave campaign are saying 'take control' but refuse to say of what, how, when, using what policies, approaches, economic decisions etc. Give me something to vote for and I will vote for it.

[Jetpilot]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

 

more like #teamreacharound

 

Maybe a rusty trombone

[BobbyZ]

I'm pretty sure I'll vote to leave. I think a shake up is a good thing once in a while, and let's be honest, the EU has a lot of countries dragging it down. If it does fall apart then it will cause some short term pain, but I think in the long term it doesn't make sense to keep it on life support.

 

Besides, it's the only way that we'll know whether or not we're better off out of the EU, because the propaganda from both sides is just worthless drivel (par for the course when it comes to politics).

[Ekona]

I'm pretty sure I'll vote to leave. I think a shake up is a good thing once in a while

Not being funny, and I've tried to phrase this in as nice a way as possible, but you do realise just how important this vote is? This isn't just a shake up, this is a once in a lifetime chance to shape the future of the country. Voting for anything just because you fancy a change is possibly the single worst reason to vote I can think of. By all means vote out if you think it will improve the country, but don't do it because you're bored!

 

Not directly related to that, and more a general question to the Brexiters: Are you prepared for the short-term pain that voting out will very likely cause? I mean in terms of the massive costs needed to negotiate the exit itself, in terms of watching the pound plummet and the effect that will have on savings and tax rates needed to sustain the UK, that sort of thing. I can absolutely see taxes needing to rise significantly to pay for the expenditure needed to leave, possibly the standard rate and almost certainly fuel & alcohol duty.

[rtbiscuit]

haven't had chance to re read all 19 pages but I found the 2 part documentary on the history of the EU interesting, we've basically been on the outer fringes since day one and never had much control at the negotiation table.

 

my concern is long term is the EU a safe bet?

 

The germans are not happy about the TTIP trade agreement with the US it looks like it could be negative long term on EU trade and put the power into big multi nationals and away from governments.

 

Climate wise parts of south western Europe could be facing harsh times with serious droughts and floods etc could we end up supporting them fginancial if tied into Europe.

 

With the current migrant crisis and counties already putting in place new border agreements could it be the problem that splits the EU

 

Greece, spain and italy are all huge financial risks with shakey economies and large financial props if greece defaults it runs the risk of dragging europe with it.

 

if we stay will it give the rest of Europe the go ahead to instigate a full federal system; i don't believe that if we stay that we won't just be integrated and become a state in a large country and the euro would soon follow.

 

with other countries looking at joining all with weak economies, it will be the job of richer countries to financially stabilse them, costs for membership will increase and so will the size and numbers of free movement.

 

All hypothetical I know

 

If we left would others follow suit?

 

if you look at all other "empires", "super States" they don't last forever, British empire, soviet union, roman empire, mongol empire, greek empire, all collapsed eventually. I don't think there is an example of a lasting cohesive group. people always want to go back to having their own identity and leadership.

 

i think we're screwed either way

 

If we stay the Eurocrats will screw it up

 

if we leave the politicians here will bodge it up as well.

 

I suppose the decisions is who do you think is going to screw you over the least.

[Jetpilot]

I'm pretty sure I'll vote to leave. I think a shake up is a good thing once in a while

Not being funny, and I've tried to phrase this in as nice a way as possible, but you do realise just how important this vote is? This isn't just a shake up, this is a once in a lifetime chance to shape the future of the country. Voting for anything just because you fancy a change is possibly the single worst reason to vote I can think of. By all means vote out if you think it will improve the country, but don't do it because you're bored!

 

Not directly related to that, and more a general question to the Brexiters: Are you prepared for the short-term pain that voting out will very likely cause? I mean in terms of the massive costs needed to negotiate the exit itself, in terms of watching the pound plummet and the effect that will have on savings and tax rates needed to sustain the UK, that sort of thing. I can absolutely see taxes needing to rise significantly to pay for the expenditure needed to leave, possibly the standard rate and almost certainly fuel & alcohol duty.

 

The scare tactics have certainly worked on you, there is absolutely zero guarantee any of that will happen.

 

If we left would others follow suit?

 

I have tried to chat to a wide demographic about the consequences for the EU if we leave, a large % feel it would collapse in the not to distant future, to start with where are they going to find the missing millions every day?

[Juggalo]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

 

more like #teamreacharound

 

Stay on topic

 

I *think* I am going to vote stay - still the Leave campaign are saying 'take control' but refuse to say of what...

 

Isn't it obvious? Laws, Courts, Human rights, Trade, Environment, Borders, Democracy. Take your pick, or come up with your own. Do some research.

It's pretty embarrassing to vote for the status quo and allow Brussels to think for you because you can't think for yourself.

Think 10, 20 or 30 years ahead, what the In & Out campaigners say is 100% guff and irrelevance. Look at the EU performance now, where it's going, and how it's performed in the past. Engage critical thinking, come to a conclusion. Base your vote on that.

[Stutopia]

It's one of the strangest campaigns ever, on both sides. No one has anything positive to say about either option, beyond the intangible placard stuff like "we're better off together" or "we'll be independent again". The only really solid fact that everyone can agree on is there won't be any more "red tape" from Europe.

 

Which is either a good thing, if you believe the money "saved" will be spent on something worthwhile like the NHS, Education, Infrastructure, etc. Or a bad thing if you believe any saved money to be gifted away in tax breaks.

 

So far it's been entirely fought by the two campaigning sides on a "you should be more scared of them than you are of us" basis, which is a shame for something so important

[Jetpilot]

Probably because no one knows for absolute certainty what the effects or ramifications will be, good or bad, its all guess work, from both sides imho

[coldel]

I always give Col likes, he talketh much sense!

 

#teamlikeback

 

more like #teamreacharound

 

Stay on topic

 

I *think* I am going to vote stay - still the Leave campaign are saying 'take control' but refuse to say of what...

 

Isn't it obvious? Laws, Courts, Human rights, Trade, Environment, Borders, Democracy. Take your pick, or come up with your own. Do some research.

It's pretty embarrassing to vote for the status quo and allow Brussels to think for you because you can't think for yourself.

Think 10, 20 or 30 years ahead, what the In & Out campaigners say is 100% guff and irrelevance. Look at the EU performance now, where it's going, and how it's performed in the past. Engage critical thinking, come to a conclusion. Base your vote on that.

 

Has anyone voting out read the official webpage? None of it actually says how and what they want control of. Borders, Environment etc none of this is mentioned, you have just listed out a list of things you 'want' to think you have control of without actually knowing what the Leave campaign have said they will take control of. How can you have a Free Trade Agreement whilst closing borders, that contradicts everything that Free Trade stands for and Free Trade (of which there are many types of different ways of doing this) is about the only thing they do mention that they want to instigate.

 

Engage critical thinking is right, assuming that you can 'take control' of your list by exiting the EU is fundamentally incorrect, plenty of research to be done there my friend.

[glrnet]

Unfortunatley Col ^ I worry about the people who are so easily influenced by so called social media. I've been working in Oldham for the last 4 weeks or so, one of the most depressed areas in the UK and the lack of knowledge or research is frightening. I've spoken to a number of "random" people up here both during the course of the worlking day and socially later on. The numebr of people who will vote to leave becuase of their hatred for the current government is scary, they beleive that by voting to leave it will damage Cameron, likliehood is it will but they haven't looked further than the end of their spiteful noses. Unfortunately, immigration up here is also a huge concern. I went to the barbers last week and the gut told me that an english family who have lived in the area for over 5 years have to make 8 bus rides a day to take and collect the children to and from school. There are 3 schools in the area, all within walking distance or 1 bus ride that they have applied to attend but have been unsuccessful for whatever reasons, the percieved belief however, is that the places are given to immigrant families first!!! How the hell did we get to this state of affairs? I know youncan take all this stuff with a pinch of salt but why on earth would they tell a complete stranger this id they didn't genuinely believe it? If this is the case in Oldham how many other depressed areas are suffering from this and is it enough to tip the vote to exit? It is clear to me from my time here that there are a lot more unhappier people in this country than I personally believed.

[Flex]

But hopefully Oldham isn't representative of the whole country but then again ....

 

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

 

[coldel]

The danger is that uncertantity and instabilty in the economy will only exacerbate this. Like you say, its a protest vote with no idea who are what follows, in all likelihood they will blame policy makers if the desired outcome from any Brexit isnt to our wanting. There will always be someone to blame.

 

I saw on social media the video of the people nicking water off the london marathon stands during the race, loads of people said its a symptom of Camerons government that people are so desperate. The fact that most of them were in designer brands (ok probably chinese knock offs) well dressed, and clearly 'overfed' shows they are hardly bordering on dying of thirst, but it was interesting how many people started ranting about the government and Carmeron. The fact that people have nicked stuff since the dawn of time regardless of which government is in shows the political party is somewhat irrelevant.

 

But I get the whole northern thing, I have lived in the midlands, south coast, essex, london so have various experiences of people and I dare say it for the flaming I get, but the knowledge of people in this country around politics, economy etc is shocking, when I lived in France the understanding of 'how stuff works' was just generally miles higher - whether thats a schooling issue I have no idea.

[glrnet]

But hopefully Oldham isn't representative of the whole country but then again ....

 

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Hence my reference to social media......It's scary Craig.

[Ekona]

The scare tactics have certainly worked on you, there is absolutely zero guarantee any of that will happen.

Not scared at all, I promise you. Tbh I'm sick of the Brexiters claiming scare tactics: It's not that at all, much like it wasn't in the Scotland vote, it's more that there is zero definites coming from the other side. If we stay in we know what we're getting because we have it now, if we leave there's only buts and maybes.

 

Okay, so where are the billions to pay for the exit going to come from? Borrowing? Not on Osbourne's watch. The country is broke as it is, when the markets take a nose dive as we vote leave (and they will, I don't think anyone would seriously think otherwise) the economy suffers even more. What better way to prove your point that people were wrong to oppose than by saying you need to increase taxes to pay for it? Perfect politics.

[coldel]

Actually reading the full public paper the Leave campaign have put up, that contains 90% 'project fear' than anything, I imagine they saw that tossing around big numbers for Leave in Scotland didnt work and the 'fear' tactic is better employed and they are doing it themselves. I guess it will work to a degree along with the broad rhetoric of 'we will take control of everything' without any plan as to how, I do get that they cannot give that away, but like I say, I need something to vote for other than them telling me I am a coward for voting stay and that by taking control of everything we will be better off - which I have yet to see any concrete evidence to say so.

 

Its their job to change my mind, of course I am going to vote for status quo as actually economic indicators show that we are growing, so its needs to be pretty bloody compelling for me to vote otherwise - its not a 'give it a shot' decision.