Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) @Sargara Well, July 2005 attacks and all the other failed plots in London ever since had nothing to do with Germany opening the borders, but home brewed terrorism / British born citizens... From what I remember the same applied for Paris and Brussels, but I might be wrong. @Irn Bru Just for clarity, until Britain decides to leave EU, all citizens from EU residing in UK are NOT immigrants, they are exercising their Treaty Rights, just as well as the over 2 million British citizens living in Spain, Cyprus or Romania. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF "(1)Citizenship of the Union confers on every citizen of the Union a primary and individual right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in the Treaty and to the measures adopted to give it effect. (2) The free movement of persons constitutes one of the fundamental freedoms of the internal market, which comprises an area without internal frontiers, in which freedom is ensured in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty. (3) Union citizenship should be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right of free movement and residence. It is therefore necessary to codify and review the existing Community instruments dealing separately with workers, self-employed persons, as well as students and other inactive persons in order to simplify and strengthen the right of free movement and residence of all Union citizens." Funny how we call British citizens living in Romania expats, but the Romanians living in UK bloody immigrants Edited March 23, 2016 by Adrian@TORQEN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 A few thoughts... I think immigration comes in two guises, one local one national. Local you could argue down to industry locality as well as geography is where immigrants are (and I don't mean this personally) coming in highly skilled in what they do with a very high work ethic, that's not to say native workers are lazy, just that they have a different view on what hours/days they should be working. If you are personally affected by this you would typically say immigration is a bad thing as Irn Bru is saying above. There is then the national view, that you take a wide lens to the economy and its been proven time and again that 'registered' migrants when aggregating their tax contributions, spend etc contribute much more than they take from the economy. What we don't know is what the black market looks like, those unregistered, not paying tax and not re-investing money back into the economy. That said, there are many natives doing exactly the same thing, even though they are registered here in the UK are hiding and shirking their contributions to HMRC. On the issue of terrorism, I think this is completely unrelated, if someone wants to blow something up in another country it will happen and being in and out of the EU even with tougher border restrictions will make no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I only need to look at your avatar Irn Bru and I can understand the racism you are promoting.Yes I did just say that because that is what it is in it's form.(a Scottish carbonated soft drink, often described as "Scotland's other national drink") let me guess...you dislike english and welsh guys as well if it wont be for the immigrants.... I am am another 'romanian' a word which you couldn't even write correctly and feel offended by your poor remarks. You need to check your stats next time you post aberrations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My personal thoughts on terrorist strikes is, its just lucky we live on an island, sure they may be able to get here to commit acts of terror, but its going to be a lot harder to get off without being caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My personal thoughts on terrorist strikes is, its just lucky we live on an island, sure they may be able to get here to commit acts of terror, but its going to be a lot harder to get off without being caught. You can't catch someone who's blown themselves up Trident should stop them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I only need to look at your avatar Irn Bru and I can understand the racism you are promoting And there in lies the problem, i dont believe his comments are racist at all, his problem is with immigration, not race. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My personal thoughts on terrorist strikes is, its just lucky we live on an island, sure they may be able to get here to commit acts of terror, but its going to be a lot harder to get off without being caught. You can't catch someone who's blown themselves up Trident should stop them Of course, but you could catch someone who has gone on a shooting spree in Paris for example rather than just dipping across a border into another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I only need to look at your avatar Irn Bru and I can understand the racism you are promoting And there in lies the problem, i dont believe his comments are racist at all, his problem is with immigration, not race. last time I checked stereotyping was a form of racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The issue is immigration, nothing to do with race so lets not get onto labelling people racists ffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I like Irn Bru, I like my English friends, I like my Sikh friends, my Welsh friends, my Irish friends, my French friends, my Jordanian friends, any friends of any nationality, race, religion really. I disliked the Romanian that was on TV the other week that sent his 'hard earned Child allowance', back to Romania, he wasn't working BTW, that's not to say, if I had Romanian friends, I would definitely like them. Vary, you're over sensitive IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Line, draw, under. I think when Irn Bru said 'lazy romanians' he meant romanians that are lazy, not that all romanians are lazy which clearly they are not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I am all cool and not hypersensitive ,I just don't encourage misleading affirmations just had a flyer in the post the other day to why Britain is better off in and not out...guess some didn't read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) I am all cool and not hypersensitive ,I just don't encourage misleading affirmations just had a flyer in the post the other day to why Britain is better off in and not out...guess some didn't read it But you just encouraged your false statement of outing someone out as a racist Edited March 23, 2016 by grundy225 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 As I was saying in regards to terrorism, nothing to do with Merkel's "open border policy", look who's behind yesterday attacks in Brussels: http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-35879141 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I am all cool and not hypersensitive ,I just don't encourage misleading affirmations just had a flyer in the post the other day to why Britain is better off in and not out...guess some didn't read it But you just encouraged your false statement of outing someone out as a racist did I use the wrong term then? I thought not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 just said it as it is. If I affirm something not right I'll stick both my hands up and admit it ,but if I am pointing out the obvious...clearly that can't be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Some more interesting articles and statistics: "Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments. At least 30,000 British nationals are claiming unemployment benefit in countries around the EU, research by the Guardian has found, based on responses from 23 of the 27 other EU countries. The research shows more than four times as many Britons obtain unemployment benefits in Germany as Germans do in the UK, while the number of jobless Britons receiving benefits in Ireland exceeds their Irish counterparts in the UK by a rate of five to one. There are not only far more Britons drawing benefits in these countries than vice versa, but frequently the benefits elsewhere in Europe are much more generous than in the UK. A Briton in France receives more than three times as much as a jobless French person in the UK." http://www.theguardi...aim-benefits-eu "A report of the European Commission, quoted by Financial Times on 6 December 2013, found no evidence that EU migrants access UK welfare benefits proportionately more than other residents of the UK. The same holds true for other European countries, the report said. An IpsoMori and King’s College London survey shows that a third of Britons think the government spends more on Job Seeker’s Allowance than on pensions. In fact, pensions take up 15 times the budget of JSA. Benefit fraud is another area where myths are more powerful than facts. The public think that £24 out of every £100 spent on benefits is claimed fraudulently. In fact, the official figure is seventy pence out of every £100. In February 2013, the total number of working age benefit claimants in Britain was 5.7 million people, with 7 per cent of them being non-UK nationals. Across all DWP working age benefits, 32 per cent of those claimants who were non-UK nationals were from Asia and Middle East, 31 per cent from within the EU and 24 per cent from Africa. Only 1,740 Romanians were on that list (0.03 per cent of total claimants). It’s negligible. Also, from the total number of 40,171 child benefit claims last year in respect of children living in another EU country, only 324 went to Romanian children (0.8 per cent). It’s, once again, negligible. Using these figures, it is worth noticing that 9.5 per cent out of 60 million people living in Britain receive benefits, whereas is only 1.4 per cent out of 120,000 Romanians living in the UK. In short, Romanians are net contributors to the public purse, not a drain. As for the number of EU citizens coming to Britain, National Insurance Number (NINO) registrations to adult overseas entering the UK for the period 2012-2013 show an increase of 50 per cent Spaniards, 44 per cent Greeks, 43 per cent Portuguese, 36 per cent Hungarians, 35 per cent Italians. The number of NINO registrations to Romanians has decreased by 22 per cent. During a debate in the House of Lords, on 7 January 2014, Lord Davies of Stamford said that unlike the “native populationâ€, EU migrants have contributed “far more†in taxes than they consumed in public services and benefits. He said: “In other words, they have supplied us with a substantial financial surplus to the benefit of every surplus in this country. Is there not every probability that hard working Romanians and Bulgarians will follow the same footstepsâ€. Earl Attlee, Home Office spokesman in the House of Lords, said he “broadly agreed with the thrust of the commentsâ€. The remarks come from outstanding British politicians, with highly recognised professional expertise. In fact, Romanians’ presence here is mainly the result of the British market demand. They do not take Britons’ jobs. British companies are currently advertising 5,000 posts for Romanians to plug gaps in the highly skilled jobs market. Since 1st January 2014, our Embassy received messages from more than ten British companies which want to employ Romanians. We advised them to advertise their job offers to Job Centre Plus." http://www.telegraph...ontribute..html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) As I was saying in regards to terrorism, nothing to do with Merkel's "open border policy", look who's behind yesterday attacks in Brussels: http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-35879141 Couldn't agree more Adrian. Lots of myths around terrorism and the idea we can shut up shop and all will suddenly become so difficult for terror cells is one of those. Another interesting myth is that Islam is a radical religion - in Europe something in the region of less than 5% of all terror acts are committed because of Islamic motivations, most are by natives committing terror for other reasons. Edited March 23, 2016 by coldel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I just don't encourage misleading affirmations Would you agree there are lazy Romanians in the UK, as well as hard working ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I just don't encourage misleading affirmations Would you agree there are lazy Romanians in the UK, as well as hard working ones? Before Valy replies, I'll add that I'm yet to see a lazy Romanian in UK and I've met thousands, running the largest portal of Romanians living in UK since 2004 Could be, I'm not saying it's impossible, but I could certainly say the number is negligible small. By lazy Romanians I don't mean trafficked people brought here to beg or claim benefits by organised crime gangs, single mothers previously domestically abused by partners, disabled etc, but people that stay at home, go to the gym and pub quickly after visiting the JobCentre to sign, with no interest for a job whatsoever. It's deeper than that, as an immigrant turning up in a totally different society, culture, language, traditions, heritage etc you're always desperate to catch up with the people already there, hence why always working very long hours, never decline any jobs, doesn't matter if it's constructions, cleaning, security agents, farmers etc. As an immigrant who managed pretty well in here, starting from very low, it always puzzles and strikes me when I see Brits born here not being able to make it in life in a such awesome society where everything is available for everyone, unlike other countries: education, health system, access to funding, where you're being promoted to senior jobs for being an achiever rather than being the son of so and so (nepotism) and so on. It's probably a cultural difference, but very hard for me to understand how can someone born in this country can be homeless or jobless for 5-10 years or being part of Jeremy Kyle "generation". I'm still learning, of course. Oh, and by the way, thanks for allowing me to be part of such an awesome society, I'm simply in love with Britain, out or inside EU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) I just don't encourage misleading affirmations Would you agree there are lazy Romanians in the UK, as well as hard working ones? Jetpilot you know, myself and probably most acknowledge this ,as it applies to all other nationals and immigrants,good/bad,hardworking/lazy etc...you get them everywhere....BUT show me where this reference to hard working romanians was made in his first comment....we just going round now really Edited March 23, 2016 by valy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bockaaarck Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 As I was saying in regards to terrorism, nothing to do with Merkel's "open border policy", look who's behind yesterday attacks in Brussels: http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-35879141 Exactly, not an immigrant to Belgium or Europe. But a Belgian born and bred national. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choptop Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Changing the direction of this thread a bit, but the other day I was asked in our out of Europe and Trump or Clinton. There was no sitting on the fence allowed or obstaining. Which way would everyone go? Difficult one........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 And some more interesting stories and facts about migration: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-expats-in-romania-they-come-over-here-taking-our-jobs-8492393.html https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116025/horr68-report.pdf https://www.statslife.org.uk/social-sciences/1910-how-many-british-immigrants-are-there-in-other-people-s-countries http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2013/12/what-britain-forgets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irn Bru Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) I only need to look at your avatar Irn Bru and I can understand the racism you are promoting.Yes I did just say that because that is what it is in it's form.(a Scottish carbonated soft drink, often described as "Scotland's other national drink") let me guess...you dislike english and welsh guys as well if it wont be for the immigrants.... I am am another 'romanian' a word which you couldn't even write correctly and feel offended by your poor remarks. You need to check your stats next time you post aberrations You only need to look at my avatar to tell I'm a racist lmfao. What a load of crock valy. Irn Bru is my favorite drink and is the same colour of my car. You sir are racist with that stupid comment. Done with this thread Edited March 23, 2016 by Irn Bru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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