harryjackson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn won't ever be prime minister though... Even his own party weren't keen on having him head of the party.. 🤔 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn won't ever be prime minister though... Even his own party weren't keen on having him head of the party.. í ¾í´” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Indeed. What does that say about how politics works these days? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryjackson Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn won't ever be prime minister though... Even his own party weren't keen on having him head of the party.. à¾Ã´” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Indeed. What does that say about how politics works these days? It's flawed. Take no notice of the BS that comes out of there mouths ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ‘🻠Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn won't ever be prime minister though... Even his own party weren't keen on having him head of the party.. í ¾í´” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk never thought he would be nor would i want him to be, but i would like more politicians to be like him. look at the kind of support he has roused at the grass roots level, he his ignited a passion for politics in a lot of young people where politics was becoming a dead point. so many politicians are far too slippery and polished, you're never sure what you hear is actually what they mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn won't ever be prime minister though... Even his own party weren't keen on having him head of the party.. à¾Ã´” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Indeed. What does that say about how politics works these days? It's flawed. Take no notice of the BS that comes out of there mouths í ½í±í ¼í¿»í ½í±í ¼í¿»í ½í±í ¼í¿»í ½í±í ¼í¿» Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And yet, most people vote based on that BS that you refer to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn is the most useless opposition leader since Iain Duncan Smith. He was a protest vote from the extreme Left Labour fan club, who felt that the only way to win an election was by being the polar opposite of the winners. Great in theory, less great when you realise that the very reason they lost is because no-one* wants that kind of socialist nonsense any more. *well, clearly some people do, but they're a bit loonie anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran O'Quick Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Just curious but has anyone changed their mind during the campaign? Pete I reckon a lot of leavers will chicken-out on the day and vote remain. Don't be scared - it's only money, it will re-boot quick enough. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Corbyn is the most uselesys opposition leader since Iain Duncan Smith. He was a protest vote from the extreme Left Labour fan club, who felt that the only way to win an election was by being the polar opposite of the winners. Great in theory, less great when you realise that the very reason they lost is because no-one* wants that kind of socialist nonsense any more. *well, clearly some people do, but they're a bit loonie anyway. The thing is, in the good old days the opposition presented a real alternative. The problem with politics in developed countries these days is that we've reached a stage where we're very comfortable whoever's in power, and I think the natural outcome of that is that the major parties converge in their policies to steal votes off each other until it's reduced to petty squabbling. Corbyn may be unelectable, but at least he stands up for the values that he feels his party represents. That's commendable, and while I'll never agree with his political stance, I do think he's very good for politics (to some extent I feel the same about Donald Trump). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Disagree. UK politics relies massively on a strong opposition, and a weak one does no-one any favours at all. Look at what New Labour got away with, and look at how stringent the Tories are being on cuts right now. Without that opposition, bad things happen. Both Corbyn and Trump appeal to those who have no real understanding of how the world works, they just want something different. That different isn't actually a good thing though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran O'Quick Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Disagree. UK politics relies massively on a strong opposition, and a weak one does no-one any favours at all. Look at what New Labour got away with, and look at how stringent the Tories are being on cuts right now. Without that opposition, bad things happen. But do you think he (JC) is as weak as he's portrayed? New Labour got away with lots because Hague and co used the same old battling tactics and got nowhere. Corbyn isn't entering into the debate on their terms and gains respect, even trust, from both sides. Edited June 21, 2016 by Kieran O'Quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I think Corbyn would be the kind of person to get Proportional representation through if given the chance. open up the politcial chamber to a more balanced representation of the public opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Disagree. UK politics relies massively on a strong opposition, and a weak one does no-one any favours at all. Look at what New Labour got away with, and look at how stringent the Tories are being on cuts right now. Without that opposition, bad things happen. Both Corbyn and Trump appeal to those who have no real understanding of how the world works, they just want something different. That different isn't actually a good thing though... I'm not sure how you're disagreeing... I didn't say it did anyone any favours. My point was that once you see the major parties converge in their policies to the extent that we've reached as a result of being comfortable no matter who's in power, the real principals get discarded and it comes down to winning votes by any means necessary. Tony Blair did this to perfection. I dislike criticism of people like Trump, purely because if he shouldn't be in the position he's in, it should be the system that's questioned rather than the man that exposed any flaws in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran O'Quick Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 If migrants are taking our jobs, then bigger shame on us for having the wealth of opportunities from school age and not taking advantage of them, people are interviewed and given jobs based on skill and likeability. If your not willing to be competitive in the job you do you might as well hang up your boots. Socialist countries tend to be exploited by overly-capitalist countries at the expense of their own poorer classes. For example, in the 80s lots of people around the world got state-sponsored degrees and emigrated to America taking jobs from local people that would have had to pay fortunes for those qualifications. Look at the rough estate in your city and ask how many kids from there will qualify as doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I know its a small audience but the poll on here still shows a reasonable + to leave, the majority of people I know are voting to leave (covering a wide demographic of ages and classes) yet the the polls show its pretty even. The most interesting thing for me will be the turnout, how many people care, will be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I know its a small audience but the poll on here still shows a reasonable + to leave, the majority of people I know are voting to leave (covering a wide demographic of ages and classes) yet the the polls show its pretty even. The most interesting thing for me will be the turnout, how many people care, will be interesting to see. people of the same opinion tend to mill in the same circles. im sure there is a someone else saying everyone he knows is to remain Edited June 22, 2016 by StevoD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Kind of why I put, wide range of ages and classes that its not just friends views and from what I know of this forum, there is very broad ranging spectrum of people and views, I didnt mean anything by it, just a point of interest to what we are being told the polls show and what I hear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Brexit could leave UK struggling to match access to Asia - Malay Mail Online “The UK will be in a very weak bargaining position because everyone will know it is desperate to negotiate new agreements,†said Mark Melatos, who focuses on international trade theory as an associate professor at Sydney University. “All potential trading partners will take advantage of that weakness.†The UK holds the referendum tomorrow and the result is too close to call, according to opinion polls. Companies from Standard Chartered Plc to Jaguar Land Rover, which are already benefiting from EU-negotiated trade deals in Asia, may have to prepare for new arrangements. Right now, the UK needs Asia more than Asia needs it: The region took 16.3 per cent of British exports last year, according to the Office for National Statistics. But the UK doesn’t rank in the top 10 in two-way trade with any major Asian nation. China, which bought road vehicles, pharmaceuticals and power-generating machinery, was the UK’s sixth-largest export destination, representing 4.5 per cent. The country was the source of 9.2 per cent of British imports. President Xi Jinping told Prime Minister David Cameron during a state visit to London in October that China “hopes Britain, as an important member of the EU, can play an even more positive and constructive role in promoting the deepening development of China-EU ties.†Those special ties may not endure after a Brexit. “In one scenario, Britain’s economic dependence on China grows and it gives China more preferential terms in trade negotiations,†said Zhang Xiaojin, director of the department of political science at Tsinghua University. British access to international markets is now governed according to World Trade Organization preferential access arrangements negotiated on its behalf by the EU, unless the EU has another agreement in place. https://apple.news/Aio4BeKx3NQqazYhrzHVnCg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GappySmeg Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Kind of why I put, wide range of ages and classes that its not just friends views and from what I know of this forum, there is very broad ranging spectrum of people and views, I didnt mean anything by it, just a point of interest to what we are being told the polls show and what I hear. Yep, I've found this quite interesting too. Everyone I work with (generally 40 y/o, university educated, don't read newspapers) are voting Remain. Everyone I play skittles with (generally 60+ y/o, successful albeit non-professional careers) are voting Leave. The scientist in me would love to dig in to that, and unearth the reasons why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I dont understand how anyone that is not a home owner would vote to remain. Immigration is only pushing house prices in one direction, and we cant fit all the required housing stock in indefinitely at the rate of yearly immigration we are receiving. I can see the appeal of Remain for business owners, home owners etc. But any of the younger generations are shafted via job prospects, welfare or housing. Edited June 22, 2016 by Sargara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Would it surprise you to learn that immigration as an index against a countries population 'per head' is higher in Norway and Switzerland? Even though they are outside the EU. It feels like a strong emotive issue, but economically the numbers just do not stack up. Unemployment is at its lowest rate since pre-crash so that assumption that immigration is causing employment issues doesn't work for me. What is concern for me around employment is periods of recession and uncertainty, thats what really causes job issues. When we see reductions in foreign investment or companies trimming the wage bill to survive through economic recessions. If we left the EU and say knocked 100,000 off the net immigration count (so a reduction of 30%) that could easily be offset and then consumed if we enter into a number of years recession again whilst we try and sort out our trading future with Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I dont understand how anyone that is not a home owner would vote to remain. Immigration is only pushing house prices in one direction, and we cant fit all the required housing stock in indefinitely at the rate of yearly immigration we are receiving. So the immigrants from poorer EU countries are coming here and buy houses, so huge demand drives prices up? I thought they were being paid lower wages, driving the wages down, how the hell they can afford to buy houses? Some numbers here: http://positivemoney.org/issues/house-prices/ http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Competitive_markets/The_housing_market.html http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-house-prices-2016-where-property-market-going-1532950 Edited June 22, 2016 by Adrian@TORQEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nievelc Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153467946496736&id=638181735 I'll just leave this here, the leave guys probably won't give it time of day to read, all research has been cited at the bottom of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 "To British voters, As Vice-Chancellors of 103 universities, we are gravely concerned about the impact of a UK exit from the EU on our universities and students. The impact of our universities on our local communities and economy should not be underestimated. Every year, universities generate over £73 billion for the UK economy – £3.7bn of which is generated by students from EU countries, while supporting nearly 380,000 jobs. Strong universities benefit the British people - creating employable graduates and cutting-edge research discoveries that improve lives. Our membership of the EU enhances this positive impact and makes our outstanding universities even stronger. Inside the EU, we are better able to work collaboratively on ground-breaking research in areas from cancer to climate change. EU membership supports British universities to attract the brightest and best minds from across Europe, enhancing university research and teaching and contributing to economic growth. Voluntarily cutting ourselves out of the world’s largest economic bloc would undermine our position as a global leader in science and innovation, impoverish our campuses and limit opportunities for British people. We believe that leaving Europe would create a difficult environment for the long-term investment in higher education and research that is necessary for the UK to maintain its position as a highly skilled and a globally competitive knowledge economy. For us it is crystal clear that our outstanding universities – and our students – are stronger in Europe." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-an-open-letter-to-uk-voters-from-leaders-of-96-british-universities-a7092511.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Well Dougless carswell and the vote leave gang are out in full force in UKIP's stronghold of clacton today! Edited June 22, 2016 by TomBorehamUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) So the immigrants from poorer EU countries are coming here and buy houses, so huge demand drives prices up? I thought they were being paid lower wages, driving the wages down, how the hell they can afford to buy houses? Come on mate don't play silly buggers with me. The houses aren't all purchased directly by the immigrants but by landlords to meet the rising demand for rented property. This eats into the housing stock depending on the area. Reduce the demand, reduce the problem. Edited June 22, 2016 by Sargara 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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