Electric Cars

[Paddy78]

I still don't think electric cars are the answer, at least not fully electric. Hydrogen is surely the answer, although a good few years behind the electric variants at the moment and the investment required to get hydrogen infrastructure in place for consumers.

[brillomaster]

Dan, you've gotta stop making these wagers... you're already at risk the cost of an MPSS tyre to someone!

 

And i'll be honest i'd be very surprised if electric cars weren't the mainstream choice in 20 years time - I mean, look at how far engine technology and emissions have come in the last 20 years, the guidelines will only get more and more strict. once the capacity of batteries has been solved and the charging infrastructure is in place, they'll be the default choice for most commuters.

[Grundy]

Flex...I'm now going a step further than unfriending you. I want to set your R33 on fire because of this thread!!!!!

[Flex]

Flex...I'm now going a step further than unfriending you. I want to set your R33 on fire because of this thread!!!!!

 

You'd need to run fast!!

[gangzoom]

I still find it funny how on a 350Z forum some people get so angry about EVs, especially when Nissan is one of the first/largest manufactures to push EVs. Now days though every one is getting on the bandwagon, well at least in hybrid form. There are so damn many of them I'm even losing track of whats coming to market .

 

 

http://www.autocar.c...rmed-production

 

http://gas2.org/2016...ance-sub-brand/

 

http://www.whatcar.c...details/1367119

 

http://www.autoexpre...ssat-gte-review

 

http://www.autotrade...uto-show-233423

 

http://jalopnik.com/...s-of-1759173876

 

Porsche though have to be the most committed, 2020 isn't that long away, if they get this thing to market at the right price point I think we can be sure which way the 911 is headed....At least the Porsche designers are actually having to do some 'designing' for once .

 

http://www.carmagazi...ocks-frankfurt/

Edited February 18, 2016 by gangzoom

[Ekona]

And i'll be honest i'd be very surprised if electric cars weren't the mainstream choice in 20 years time - I mean, look at how far engine technology and emissions have come in the last 20 years

Exactly why I think petrol is the future. Look how far we've come in the last 10 years even in terms of engine design and efficiency, and we're making new gains all the time with relatively old tech. It's cheap, it's simple to fix, and we'll never run out of the black stuff in my lifetime.

 

Something like the i8 is a great compromise, and if they gave it a proper engine it'd be on my list of things I'd be interested in owning.

[gangzoom]

Seen a few floating around on here, just wondered if anyone has test driven any, recommend any? Thinking about company car as quite low benefit in kind atm, although they're quite pricey from new!

 

Wait till summer, BMW are apparently getting ready to upgrade the battery to the i3, which will make it a 120 mile range car. The Leaf has just had a battery upgrade, the PCP deals going are pretty good at the moment, not much more than the £200/month I'm paying on my current Leaf with the old battery.

 

Tesla are due to start taking pre-orders for the Model III next months but thats not going to hit production till 2018, though rumours have it the current S is going to be face lifted at the same time. But if your buying second hand £46K will now get you a 85kWh 18 months old Model S. So used prices are falling as expected - 50% value at 3 years.

 

Like it or not EV are coming, this is the total sales of $70,000+ cars in the US over the last calendar year (when petrol prices are low). You don't need to be a genius to see which way the luxury car market it heading. Yes this is tiny segment of the market, but actually the most profitable, and when the likes of BMW/Audi/Merc start to see their cash cows disappearing they haven't got a choice but to go EV chasing. When battery prices fall, the same thing will happen in the next segment down.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by gangzoom

[coldel]

I hope the government is gearing up to deal with the increased requirement for cars to 'plug in' - I am good friends with the MD of the green energy part of a major power supplier in the UK, he fights a daily battle to convince anyone in government to stop burning stuff and start using nature. Its alright going electric, but the power demands have to come from somewhere and at the moment the infrastructure just isnt there

[Fodder]

I hope the government is gearing up to deal with the increased requirement for cars to 'plug in' - I am good friends with the MD of the green energy part of a major power supplier in the UK, he fights a daily battle to convince anyone in government to stop burning stuff and start using nature. Its alright going electric, but the power demands have to come from somewhere and at the moment the infrastructure just isnt there

I'm sure the government are gearing up how to tax these cars. Once the balance shift means reduced fuel and road fund license revenues due to the tax incentives in place now start impacting money in you can bet they will start looking at ways to hit the "eco" car.

 

Edit: My original wording was an illiterate ramble

Edited February 18, 2016 by Fodder

[Ekona]

Of course they will. Then watch their popularity plummet.

[Jetpilot]

43% increase in sales and still loosing money, yep, thats definitely the future

 

No ones angry about ev's, just dont believe the Elon Musk hype and hang on is every word and what do you expect on a ice forum?

[gumpy000]

[gumpy000]

Couldn't resist.

[Stutopia]

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers". ICE is going the way of the Ceefax in the long term. All the more reason for those of us who enjoy it to make the most of it while we can

 

If I was buying a EV for city/commute/second car, I'd go Leaf. They're nice inside and quick off the mark.

[Fodder]

Of course they will. Then watch their popularity plummet.

Apologies I didn't make myself clear. I had typed that while on conference calls and I seriously can not multitask

 

Anyway I was agreeing with your points to some extent but it would be a brave man who beta against alternative energy vehicles being the norm in their lifetime. I agree it's probably a while off though.

 

The issue I have with all the incentives that the government seem to have in place is down to hoodwinking the general public into believing they are doing their bit for the environment. That electricity has to be produced somewhere and it isn't harvesting lightening bolts doc brown style. Sooner rather than later it's going to hit the income and they will have to tax tax tax.

 

Same with hydrogen cars, I saw a short video a while back (positive it was the bbc) where they were evaluating a Hyundai hydrogen car and it was all very well however to harness hydrogen they had to use masses of electricity and guess where that came from.... Your traditional coal/gas consuming power station. You were basically adding a layer of combustion to the cycle

However I do see the merits of EV's for some uses though, flex isn't stupid and he will have done his research more so than I have - after all I'm nott in the market for one.

[Ekona]

If I was 20 years old, I may not make the same bet

[Jetpilot]

The national grid can barely supply the power we need at present, I have no idea where the ev are the future think the increased demand is coming from.

 

Are they the future, as Fanny says, not in my/our lifetime, are they an alternative, yes.

[Fodder]

It may not be the tech that drives the migration though, I did mean to try to get this point across but missed it entirely.... I often do that

 

It's probably those very same incentives and more taxation on ICE that make the move more rapid than the tech can ever do which in turn will turn the tables on any incentives be them running costs, less taxation etc.

 

I do hope the tech does move forward, particularly in the storage space then maybe on day my iPhone won't ever need a daily charge

[Jetpilot]

A very valid point but as someone mentioned elsewhere they are saving £80 a month, hardly a deal changer and lets be honest, you "could" go out, buy a very economical 2nd hand car, use it for 2/3 years and sell it for not much of a loss and it wont cost as much as you have lost on a ev.

 

You can also discuss future ev costs, they wont be subsidised for ever and then who knows the true cost.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Jetpilot

[ioneabee]

I'm probably not understanding something here but...

 

electric is produced at a power station from mostly dirty fuels ie fossil or nuclear

 

I do heat loss calculations for houses and as soon as I put electric heating in it, the rating just drops off terribly (these are government figures and software)

 

so how are electric cars rated as clean ............ ok, so they don't emit emissions from the car, but they do at the point of generation

[brillomaster]

I thought electric cars were a lot more efficient at turning energy into forward propulsion - most ICE cars generate a lot of heat and noise.

[coldel]

It may not be the tech that drives the migration though, I did mean to try to get this point across but missed it entirely.... I often do that

 

It's probably those very same incentives and more taxation on ICE that make the move more rapid than the tech can ever do which in turn will turn the tables on any incentives be them running costs, less taxation etc.

 

I do hope the tech does move forward, particularly in the storage space then maybe on day my iPhone won't ever need a daily charge

 

You are assuming the taxation laws stay as is - the government relies heavily on taxing the motorist, it needs the cash to keep the country on an even keel (although not entering into an argument about labour vs tories here), if everyone switches to EV where does all that lost revenue come from? You can only tax ICE cars so much, and if the numbers dwindle to the point all EV enthusiasts are predicting there will be a multi billion pound blackhole in the UKs finances that needs to be filled, which means switching the taxation to EV or taxing the electorate in other areas.

 

Take banking for example, was it 8-10 years ago a big campaign to stop them charging to use cash points and lots of people rejoicing at the money they saved. Now, 10 years on, the free current account I had 10 years ago with breakdown cover etc now costs me something like £10 a month. You will always be charged, just not always through the same channels.

Edited February 19, 2016 by coldel

[Ekona]

Because the public are mugs and most don't understand that. All they see is 2p for 100mi and that's it.

 

On a tangent, look at smartphone batteries. As a rule they still only last a day, despite nearly 10 years worth of development. Why is this? Simply it's because we want more gadgets and more power, so it needs a bigger more efficient battery to power all that. If you get an EV and then put on your fancy stereo, your heated seats, your a/c, your satnav, your lane detection system etc, where do you think the power for this will come from? That's right, from the batteries, so EV manufacturers need to step up the game there just to stay still. It's ridiculous, and it's the consumers' fault.

[Richf]

The national grid can barely supply the power we need at present, I have no idea where the ev are the future think the increased demand is coming from.

 

Are they the future, as Fanny says, not in my/our lifetime, are they an alternative, yes.

 

True but our use is dropping year and year and has been for some time, refining fuel uses a lot of electricity also and since electric cars are more efficient its better to use that power to power cars rather than refine the fuel which then goes onto power cars

[Fodder]

It may not be the tech that drives the migration though, I did mean to try to get this point across but missed it entirely.... I often do that

 

It's probably those very same incentives and more taxation on ICE that make the move more rapid than the tech can ever do which in turn will turn the tables on any incentives be them running costs, less taxation etc.

 

I do hope the tech does move forward, particularly in the storage space then maybe on day my iPhone won't ever need a daily charge

 

You are assuming the taxation laws stay as is - the government relies heavily on taxing the motorist, it needs the cash to keep the country on an even keel (although not entering into an argument about labour vs tories here), if everyone switches to EV where does all that lost revenue come from? You can only tax ICE cars so much, and if the numbers dwindle to the point all EV enthusiasts are predicting there will be a multi billion pound blackhole in the UKs finances that needs to be filled, which means switching the taxation to EV or taxing the electorate in other areas.

 

Take banking for example, was it 8-10 years ago a big campaign to stop them charging to use cash points and lots of people rejoicing at the money they saved. Now, 10 years on, the free current account I had 10 years ago with breakdown cover etc now costs me something like £10 a month. You will always be charged, just not always through the same channels.

We are on the same page and your point is exactly what I was trying to convey, you sir put it much more eloquently