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Is there any point in N/A mods?


The Don

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Not had my Zed long and have been looking at some mods, specifically replacing the lower collector on my rev-up with a modified one (MREV2). It's said to give good mid-range gains and loads of dynos posted all over the web confirm this.

 

HOWEVER, I also read that after a short while, the ECU will compensate and dial out any gains from N/A mods.

 

Question is, who is right? Are these impressive dynos I'm seeing taken before the ECU has had the chance to adjust? Or are they veiled marketing by manufacturers/resellers? I'm confused :wacko:

 

Are we all wasting our time and cash on N/A breathing mods?

 

Discuss...

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air filter and exhaust are just for noise really

 

the plenum is about the only thing people report gains with and that is more mid range grunt

 

i dont know if this is purely due to it moving the torque curve or real gains ?

 

i havent seen maps from before and after

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I think there's plenty of evidence that the plenum mods give mid-range gains in both hp and tq (rather than peak gains), but are those mid-range gains permanent? It's one thing fitting a mod, dyno'ing immediately and seeing improvements, but if they then used the car for a week and ran a dyno under theoretically identical conditions would the ECU have negated the initial gains?

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There are lots of before and after dyno sheets on US forums and in magazines showing gains for a variety of modifications. Even if you think the ECU is adapting around your modifications it only takes a few seconds to reset it.

 

sorry mate i dont understand, are you suggesting that when the ecu adapts to your mods you should reset it ? it learns very fast, well as soon as the car is warm and the info is fed to it, it only runs in open loop when cold iirc

 

all the usa sites advice a remap or reflash or piggy back ecu such as a utec

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I contacted Abbey Motorsport about an aftermarket ECU for the Z. They are trying to push the HKS F-Con at the moment. The final cost that they quoted me was well over £3k, Ive still got the quote that they sent somewhere so ill try and dig it out.

 

My car was dynoed a few months back & made just above standard power figures & well below standard TQ figures - this was with filter,plenum,exhaust,y-pipe&cats. I was having a few problems with the cats at the time though so im hoping that now I have my new cats in my torque will return.

 

To get the most out of N/A mods you really need an aftermarket ECU installed but at the price from Abbey + the cost of mods I would have been better off installing a supercharger.

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I contacted Abbey Motorsport about an aftermarket ECU for the Z. They are trying to push the HKS F-Con at the moment. The final cost that they quoted me was well over £3k, Ive still got the quote that they sent somewhere so ill try and dig it out.

 

My car was dynoed a few months back & made just above standard power figures & well below standard TQ figures - this was with filter,plenum,exhaust,y-pipe&cats. I was having a few problems with the cats at the time though so im hoping that now I have my new cats in my torque will return.

 

To get the most out of N/A mods you really need an aftermarket ECU installed but at the price from Abbey + the cost of mods I would have been better off installing a supercharger.

 

we are now supplying the Haltech plug and play - more features than the F Con, and, less money :)

 

haltech: http://www.z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?mode ... rodid=2843

 

or, there is the utec too, which works well for NA mods, and for forced induction up around 500 hp. I have the UTEC in my full NA car, and its worked great, though I am now upgrading to the Haltech in the coming weeks

 

utec: http://www.z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?mode ... rodid=1602

 

and of course, both are in stock :)

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I've still read a lot of reviews of plenum mods which make no mention of piggy back ECUs and still claim the gains. But they never seem to comment on whether the gains are permanent.

 

If I'm looking at 500+ quid for an ECU mod on top of the N/A mods then like Ian says you might as well bite the bullet and go supercharged.

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I replaced the Air Filter to a K&N typhoon and a Motordyne Plenum 5/16th then had it dyno'd, showed and felt improvment over stock, have now fitted a 5Zigen Pro-Racer zorst with a 5Zigen Y-pipe, not Dyno'd yet but I can feel improvements.

 

Due to have a pair of Kenitix hiflow cats fitted soon so I am going to have it dyno'd to see what has changed with the zorst and then once the the Hi-Flows are fitted will run it on the Dyno again so I should be able to note what has improved or not...

 

All the dynos will be done on the same equipment. As another test I have a group dyno booked in at another garage so will be able to see the differences between the 2 dyno settings.

 

All I do know is that my Zed is now improved in both sound and feel so thats good enough for me!!

 

Looking at Piggybacks just so I can make full use of the mods that I have made but its not top of the list at the moment!

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I accept that ECU tuning is the only option wrt getting max gains from your mods. But most people are looking for bolt-ons which will give good gains without the pain of the piggy back ECU and a tuning session on a dyno.

 

So if plenum mods are NOT dialled out by the ECU, as you believe Adam, then can anyone explain why? What's the fundamental difference between that and e.g. a popcharger, wrt how the ECU responds?

 

3fiddyZ, I'm never sure whether to rely on the so called butt-dyno. The fact that you've spent a few hundred on a mod may influence your opinion on any perceived improvements. Placebo mods. And even if you do feel improvement initially, maybe they are temporary and just fade away gradually and imperceptibly as the ECU slowly adjusts? Did you do your dyno test immediately after fitting the K&N and plenum spacer and did you dyno before the mods were fitted to get a measure of genuine gains, or are you referencing "stock" as per the Nissan figures?

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I think the reason plenum mods aren't cancelled, it to do with fuel / air ratio. If there is more air getting in, to keep the fuel / air ratio the same then it needs more fuel = bigger bang! Albeit the ECU canm cancel some mods, I can't believe it can deal with changing the basic set-up of an internal combustion engine!? :wacko:

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I think the reason plenum mods aren't cancelled, it to do with fuel / air ratio. If there is more air getting in, to keep the fuel / air ratio the same then it needs more fuel = bigger bang! Albeit the ECU canm cancel some mods, I can't believe it can deal with changing the basic set-up of an internal combustion engine!? :wacko:

I beleive it can with a fly by wire throttle if it wanted. Even if you are giving it more air, the FBW throttle can close a bit, to give the "normal" airflow. This is what I would guess it does when you install a popcharger.

 

With the plenum, as it is balancing the air to the cylinders rather than letting in more, it gives better fuel/air mixes across all cylinders, which means better burn which gives more power :thumbs:

 

Usual disclaimer applies, I could be talking cack :teeth:

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I think the reason plenum mods aren't cancelled, it to do with fuel / air ratio. If there is more air getting in, to keep the fuel / air ratio the same then it needs more fuel = bigger bang! Albeit the ECU canm cancel some mods, I can't believe it can deal with changing the basic set-up of an internal combustion engine!? :wacko:

I beleive it can with a fly by wire throttle if it wanted. Even if you are giving it more air, the FBW throttle can close a bit, to give the "normal" airflow. This is what I would guess it does when you install a popcharger.

 

With the plenum, as it is balancing the air to the cylinders rather than letting in more, it gives better fuel/air mixes across all cylinders, which means better burn which gives more power :thumbs:

 

Usual disclaimer applies, I could be talking cack :teeth:

 

:lol: Likewise! :blush: Proves the point then - it is inconclusive.....

 

But there are quite a few people who have had their cars dyno'd with Injen kits on, and they showed an increase. One of the guys posted his graphs on here, and there are a few in the US too. Confusing! :wacko:

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tdi north were going to dyno a zed with a cosworth plenum, cosworth claimed gains of 25bhp but this hasnt happened yet ?

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic ... um&start=0

 

Not TDi North, TDi. ;)

 

+1

 

i thought they were the same thing ? just one down south and one oop north ?

 

TDI North are a sister company, kind of the same thing yes, but a smaller operation and specialising more in Honda's. Great guys and quality workmanship.

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I think the reason plenum mods aren't cancelled, it to do with fuel / air ratio. If there is more air getting in, to keep the fuel / air ratio the same then it needs more fuel = bigger bang! Albeit the ECU canm cancel some mods, I can't believe it can deal with changing the basic set-up of an internal combustion engine!? :wacko:

 

why does it cancel out any gains from an air filter then ? shirley that does the same - more air/fuel, unless the MAF is grassing on us squeeling to the ecu

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tdi north were going to dyno a zed with a cosworth plenum, cosworth claimed gains of 25bhp but this hasnt happened yet ?

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic ... um&start=0

 

Not TDi North, TDi. ;)

 

+1

 

i thought they were the same thing ? just one down south and one oop north ?

 

TDI North are a sister company, kind of the same thing yes, but a smaller operation and specialising more in Honda's. Great guys and quality workmanship.

 

:thumbs: gotcha mike, so any r&d is done at the head office so to speak

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