Ekona Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Nothing from the Kumho range is really suited to a big, heavy, powerful car like the 350Z. It's just how the car reacts to them: For instance, it's a general rule that the OEM 040s are shite on the 350, which they are. However, they're a billion times better on the Zed than they are on the MR2, which also had them as OEM, as they need a bit of weight to get them working well. Just as easy to have the reverse, or something different. I once tried a set of T1Rs on my old VXR220 after enjoying them on the MR2. They were utterly horrid, and I destroyed them on one trackday without really trying. On the MR2 they'd have lasted ages, but the cornering forces generated along with the extra power meant they just couldn't cope. As a very unwritten rule goes, the more expensive (and likely more powerful!) the car you have, the more need there is to run more expensive rubber to get the most out of it. I can promise you 100000% that if I gave you a 350Z on Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta (sadly discontinued) you'd love it. I enjoyed those tyres too. I'd then give you a 350Z on MPSS, and you'd never ever go back to the VUS again as you'd find them wallowy and lacking in any kind of grip. It's all about perspective, and in general most people don't run or try more than one or two tyres at most on their cars, so they think whatever they have is fine. A very telling point on here is that no-one who has spent the relative little extra for the MPSS has come back with anything other than universal acclaim for them, and certainly no-one has felt the need to try anything different. A good set of tyres will be worth far more in terms of performance than another £300 on pads or another £1K extracting 20bhp will, road or track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88 Zed Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 So it's more a case of the car being suited to the tyre than just the quality of the tyre? I never really thought of it in that way but it's a good point. Bit late now as I've bought kumho's! If I find myself wallowing around bends and struggling for traction then I'll be swapping them out for the MPSS. What's your views on the Toyo proxys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Bit of both, really. Personally no, I don't rate the performance side of the Kumho range much (never tried the shopping trolley side on shopping trolley cars so can't comment) so I wouldn't ever go that route barring an emergency. Which Proxes? T1Rs are f*cking sh*t and I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole; T1 Sport I have very little experience with and would love to try them as a reference guide; R888s are my go-to tyre for track and mostly-track cars (I'll definitely get a set for the BMW at some point, that'll be hysterical!); and I've not seen any R888Rs in the wild yet but I expect them to be comfortably better than the 888s, in the dry anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88 Zed Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I bought my Zed with T1 sports on, I've got a spare set of wheels knocking about so I might get a decent set in the new year if these kumho's try and kill me! The T1ns are comfortable but I don't rate them in the wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Trouser Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Obviously the likes of bridgestones will be better but don't knock the kumho's until you've tried them! Especially at £80odd a corner! Many years ago a friend of mine who knew far more than about cars than I ever will told me 'Never skimp on tyres - it's the most important safety feature on a car'. I still think that's good advice and ... urm... "£80odd a corner" isn't I know that's not the advice you're giving - but seriously, get the best you can afford rather than compromising on price if you can - could save your life. Edited December 22, 2015 by The Trouser 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I think the majority buy the best they can afford, but also its a case of weighing up how you drive, what you drive, how often you drive. I do so few miles in my car the rubber would disintegrate through age before I got anywhere near the wear markers People talk about cornering speeds etc. to be honest if I feel myself shifting about in my seat I tend to corner slower, rather than buy tyres that allow me to corner faster. But hey I am the guy that can be found most of the time pootling along at well within the speed limit. Does it warrant an extra 40% on tyre cost to go from a very good brand to an excellent brand when I never use more than say 30% of the tyres capabilities anyway? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yes, because you'll get 50% more tyre life and also have the ability to brake or get out of the way when a muppet does something daft in front of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 But like I say, I do 2000-3000 miles a year max, the cost savings of tyres going 25% further really add to very little given I am changing tyres once every few years, in fact of my last four cars I have only bought new tyres once (current car) because I sell it before they need replacing. The distance formula doesn't really work here at all for me in my circumstance. In terms of stopping, the emphasis seems to be on tyres, yet I don't see people stating how important brake pads and discs are? Most people go for middle of the road on that front rather than putting an extra 40% towards those - and probably run those much further than you should. Arguably, they have bigger influence on stopping distance than tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 They don't. Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) So a set of shoddy brakes £40 discs and pads from china via ebay after a few hours driving with a set of MPSS on are going to hugely outperform stopping distance against a set of say Goodyears with carbon ceramic brakes (or equivalent?) My point really is that the difference in everyday driving between most decent tyre brands is going to be marginal, at 30mph, its going to be a matter of feet. I am sure if you slam on a big brake kit with some Goodyears or whatever you will get as good stopping distance as MPSS and some 40 quid pads. Edited December 22, 2015 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Brakes make very little difference to stopping power as it happens, all the chat about jdm brakes and stopping distances is just nonsense, I will try and find a test I read, the jdms stopped 1 foot longer than brembos, the only difference will come in prolonged braking. Still got to hope the guy behind you has mpss though or your still getting hit ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Well fair enough if it is marginal, but have read so many threads on here about never touching EBC yellow stuff and having to buy DBA and so on I kind of believed it. I have never owned MPSS, I have never hit anything, basically because I drive well within the tyres (and my own very average) capabilities. I suspect Dan and a fair few people on here are much better drivers than me and so want to get the most out of the cars so having ultimate tyre capability is probably going to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Once you can lock the wheels, you're past the point where tyres can make a difference. It's harder to do that than people think, especially with ABS being fitted everywhere these days. It's important to upgrade brakes to reduce fade, but you'll get more improvement in stopping power from tyres than from the brakes. In answer to your question, I would put £10 of my own money on the eBay brakes with MPSS stopping shorter over one stop than the Goodyears with CC discs. Over 50 stops, the CC discs will start to make their effectiveness shown. It's not about the driver, it's about the unknown. On track sure, I'd want to get 100% out of the car at 10/10ths, but on the road I want the ability to stop or move quickly when Dippy Doris pulls out in front of me. That's where you get the real benefit, even if you're not a Hamilton. And I'm definitely not! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 So in effect brakes have no effect on braking and I should buy the cheapest ones I can and put all the money saved on MPSS...not sure I sit comfortably with that mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 At the speeds you claim to drive you could use pads made of a firm cheese mate as ekona says, you could make any brake set up lock up so its only the abs helping you stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 No, brakes have an important effect on braking: However, in overall STOPPING distance the tyres would have a greater effect on anything other than repeated runs. It's important to balance upgrades equally, but if you're looking to improve stopping power then do the tyres first. Same as if you want to improve cornering speeds, or acceleration: Do the tyres. That's the only thing connecting you to the road, hence the huge difference. There is quite literally no downside to putting the MPSS on your car. Well, unless you're going to drive over a load of nails and puncture them ever 2 miles, or are going to drift the snot out of them on a DWYB day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebottrill Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I've got MPSS all round. They seem pretty good in wet and dry! Noticeably more grip that the Avon zz3 previously on there. MPSS seem like the best, and not that much more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran_ctr Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 My Bridgestone RE050 came so getting fitted now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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