Ekona Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Agreed, could well just open the TB less to restrict it I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenWomble Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 so yeah, what dan said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The ECU in my old mondeo used to learn driving styles. And adjust accordingly. Depending on if you were a "spirited" driver or not!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Somebody get davey_83 a god damn dictionary and grammar lessons, reading his posts scratches my eyes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) sorry pal, its messing on my silly blackberry. if any breather modded 350z turns up for an uprev with more than stock power, that kinda blows the above agrument to piece tbf. Horsham Plenum spacer ~ not as pretty as a Wasso one but does the same job. I was extremely pleased with the work Jez & Craig had performed on my car especially the UpRev which I felt made a big difference especially in the first few gears. Result from the dyno below: More to follow... http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/91628-gmballistics-zed-supercharged-2003-gun-metal-gt-coupe-vids-added/page__st__20 Edited December 9, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Tried reading that thread but it's pyyyyyaaaar long. Didn't he get the plenum fitted at Horsham before they did any dyno work though? I can't see any 'before' figures unless I'm missing something? Isn't that a pic of the after figures? Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) sorry pal, its messing on my silly blackberry. if any breather modded 350z turns up for an uprev with more than stock power, that kinda blows the above agrument to piece tbf. Horsham Plenum spacer ~ not as pretty as a Wasso one but does the same job. I was extremely pleased with the work Jez & Craig had performed on my car especially the UpRev which I felt made a big difference especially in the first few gears. Result from the dyno below: More to follow... http://www.350z-uk.c...ed/page__st__20 Well not really, Jap cars are well known amongst people in the know to have varying levels of power out the factory - R35s are famous for it many coming in with much more power as standard than the paper value. TBF also, quite why people come on here, ask opinion, then just tell them to prove it is quite beyond me. Just take the advice, if you feel like responding fine but this is advice based on personal experience as well as the advice passed to them by professional tuners. The advice has been given, I don't get asked to prove everything I say day to day in life, I don't think people need to here either, it's up to you to take it or leave it or as you say go away do it yourself and blow everyone out of the water with your new superior knowledge. Edited December 9, 2015 by coldel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) varing levels of power due to the gtr's engine being hand built is the only reason. pre remap showed 282bhp i think, which is more than a stock 10+ yr old motor would be expected to see is all im trying to say. i just dont get why the ecu would reduce gains over a period of a couple weeks? and how would someone know this? sorry if im asking the same questions again and again but ive seen nowt back up to confirm this to be true. i completely understand and know that to get the very best out of any engine upgrades requires a remap to do this, however to say these I/P/E mods do nothing without an uprev is bizarre. Or rather do show gains, then you wake up one morning and your back to what you had prior to fitting them. david Edited December 9, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Because it's designed to work within set parameters, so it reduces power to make sure it doesn't go pop I guess. There's no logical reason, it's just what Nissan chose to do. Not sure why you have a hard time comprehending this, it's not like Nissan are the only car company to do this. Tell you what, if you're so unconvinced by literally everyone here telling you the same thing, prove it for yourself. Get an exhaust put on and a dyno done there and then, then go back a month later for another dyno assuming you've done a reasonable amount of miles by then, and report back. Tell you what, I'll chip in with 50% of the second dyno cost just so no-one thinks it's been fudged or whatever. How does that sound? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 varing levels of power due to the gtr's engine being hand built is the only reason. pre remap showed 282bhp i think, which is more than a stock 10+ yr old motor would be expected to see is all im trying to say. i just dont get why the ecu would reduce gains over a period of a couple weeks? and how would someone know this? sorry if im asking the same questions again and again but ive seen nowt back up to confirm this to be true. david I would dispute this, my 20 year old Celica which came out the factory on paper with 255bhp with an aftermarket exhaust and no other power mods gets 281bhp. I find it hard to believe that my exhaust added nearly 30bhp on top of that paper number in addition to 20 years of use which would have eroded bhp from the original factory level. My only conclusion I can come to is that it came out with more than the 255 it was meant to have on paper. I guess I could prove this by changing the exhaust out back to something stock (if there are any left) and running it on a dyno, if its above 255 then it must have done - but I really do not have the inclination, however Dan (Ekonas) offer is a good one, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) ^ Ekona your either speaking from experiance or your not......... if theres a thread detailing what you are saying with a rolling road or engine dyno back up, pls kindly share the link. was this an import toyota or uk spec? an exhaust on a turbo car is again different to n/a tuning which is tough at the best of times. Edited December 9, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Import, although I do not want to derail the thread, I am pretty sure the ECU on a Toyota from 1995 works differently to the Zed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 ^ Ekona your either speaking from experiance or your not......... if theres a thread detailing what you are saying with a rolling road or engine dyno back up, pls kindly share the link. I refuse to do your homework for you mate I also suspect that unless I come out with twenty threads then you're going to call it a one off, regardless. There's plenty of info on this both here and across the pond, or you could ring a professional and ask them too. Fine, tell you what, I'll pay for the ENTIRE second dyno for you. All you have to do is get the exhaust and a dyno pull for that, which you would do anyway as a matter of course, so to prove this one way or another is now literally going to cost you absolutely nothing. I really cannot be fairer than that. It's not just me here, is it? Am I being totally unreasonable chaps?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Interesting read here http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/92887-before-before-after-dynos-abbey/ it doesnt actually answer the question fully from skim reading it, but shows with additional mods it got a small amount of additional bhp on the day without uprev then gained much more with it applied - but it doesnt take into account what Dan is saying how the learning ECU will dial back the air fuel mix over time to factory levels. What it does say though is that the uprev makes a big difference, which would make sense, as it is just a licenced tune up of the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich260 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Great looking car OP. I'd go for decat's just for the rasp you get above 3K. Any power gains are a bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) with additional mods it got a small amount of additional bhp on the day without uprev then gained much more with it applied That's all ive been trying to say........ I think you're misunderstanding what actually happens. Sure, breathing mods DO add power, but only if you remap for them to fool the stock ECU. Much like Lotus ECUs, when the 350 realises it's doing more than it should, it does some electrickery within itself and backs things off until it's making the exact same power it should be. How does the ecu know what power the engine is producing from one day to the next?..... Edited December 9, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Because it knows the capacity, it knows what air is coming in, it knows the timing, it knows the AFR... Maybe power was the wrong word. It'll put the mixture back to within a set specification, either via the TB or via the timing most likely. Either way, you end up back at square one. You've not commented on my offer yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Why is everyone being so polite? OP, the 350Z has been in the UK and getting modified for 12 years now, and this is the leading owners club - many of us also have links to NICO and other Nissan/Jap performance car clubs. We know from experience that decats dont add power and air filters lose power, the exhaust already breathes pretty freely and anything other than the standard airbox suffers heat sink and actually loses power. The plenum spacer is a slightly different story, Id swear that mine added power but this guy has actually tested it: http://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/467516-unbiased-independent-dyno-test-vq35de-revup-plenum-spacer.html and found there isnt a difference. Regardless, the point is that air and fuel are metered very closely on the 350Z - if the plenum suddenly gains 10% more capacity that doesnt mean the car will start chucking in 10% more fuel, it will just restrict the intake air until its back within limits and keep fuelling as it was. If it was a turbo car (like the celica on page previous) then sure, decats will almost always mean an exhaust flows more freely and a bigger intercooler will lead to greater boost pressure for the same reason, but as soon as you hit the limit of fuelling (usually dictated by what the Air Flow Meter is happy with) you you get fuel cut - the Z is the same but the variance is much tighter and here isnt any fuel cut. If you get a remap or add aftermarket management you can redefine the amount of variance and this will allow you to chuck more fuel in to make the most of a freer breathing intake, but the standard ECU wont allow it - you might have improved it but the car isnt making the most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) That plenum test was carried out on a 06 revup zed, ie different to a early DE. Because it knows the capacity, it knows what air is coming in, it knows the timing, it knows the AFR... Maybe power was the wrong word. It'll put the mixture back to within a set specification, either via the TB or via the timing most likely. Either way, you end up back at square one. You've not commented on my offer yet. I already have E/I/P breather mods and wouldn't take anyone's money to prove or disprove information that already exist, but thank you. Its already been said that breather mods on a 350z can show lasting gains over stock prior to uprev. David Edited December 9, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Errr ......... you have an 06 350Z so would the test above not be relevant? Or are you just looking to tell everyone that they are wrong and you are right? Thats nice if so but youre going to need a bit of evidence too. Actually, what about the air filter and decat? Can you admit that we are right that they wotn add power or is there something we havent considered? At the end of the day youve pitched up and asked what mods we would recommend for more power. Theres now three pages of people saying you can do this or that but youll only get lasting effect with a remap as well, no doubt we can do another 2 pages if you really want to. If you want advice then listen to what youre being told, if you want to tell us that we are wrong then prove it, but at present you just seem to want to waste peoples time - thats also cool but people will get pi**ed off pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I had to look out the window then, no reg still says 05' What's the crack with this lot........ 2004 uk car Rs tuning dyno dynamics uprev/plenum spacer/hks drop in/milltek with Y pipe/standard cats. Before 283.7bhp/260 torque After 292bhp/275 torque Shell v-power 25 lb ft torque gain at 2600rpm tailing off to 10 lb ft throught Model: 2003 VQ35DE 276HP Mods: Plenum spacer, pop charger, Nismo exhaust Dyno: Dynodynamics (Eurospec2000, Guildford) BHP: 240WHP / 280BHP@fly Torque: 230ftlb My old car figures. Model: 2004 VQ35DE 276HP Mods: Plenum spacer, pop charger, Fujtitsubo exhaust and HKS sports cats Dyno: Dastek (Gotboost Performance Tuning Ltd) BHP: 250.6 WHP / 280.5 BHP@fly Torque: 240.8 lbft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Can we stop feeding it now......? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) with additional mods it got a small amount of additional bhp on the day without uprev then gained much more with it applied That's all ive been trying to say........ I think you're misunderstanding what actually happens. Sure, breathing mods DO add power, but only if you remap for them to fool the stock ECU. Much like Lotus ECUs, when the 350 realises it's doing more than it should, it does some electrickery within itself and backs things off until it's making the exact same power it should be. How does the ecu know what power the engine is producing from one day to the next?..... I know, but the rest of my comment still stands, that it takes a fair few miles to dial back the fueling and breathing to the mapped ECU levels so this will not be realised immediately on the dyno which was Dan's point he has been trying to put across. Certainly all those mods on another car without the learning ECU you could argue would have given more than 10bhp, so you have to ask yourself why that is? In that they will not operate fully without the uprev that much is clear and the evidence is there. Also that they do not give the big bhp jumps you should see as the evidence also shows just a 10bhp increase. What is missing is the evidence that the zed ECU dials it back, but to be honest, on weight of evidence alone in that thread, it leans fairly strongly to what everyone has been saying that you will not get the benefit of the mods and certainly once the ecu learns, you will lose what benefit you do see. Edited December 9, 2015 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force-V4 Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Looks like I'm remapping so lol...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I had to look out the window then, no reg still says 05' What's the crack with this lot........ 2004 uk car Rs tuning dyno dynamics uprev/plenum spacer/hks drop in/milltek with Y pipe/standard cats. Before 283.7bhp/260 torque After 292bhp/275 torque Shell v-power 25 lb ft torque gain at 2600rpm tailing off to 10 lb ft throught Model: 2003 VQ35DE 276HP Mods: Plenum spacer, pop charger, Nismo exhaust Dyno: Dynodynamics (Eurospec2000, Guildford) BHP: 240WHP / 280BHP@fly Torque: 230ftlb My old car figures. Model: 2004 VQ35DE 276HP Mods: Plenum spacer, pop charger, Fujtitsubo exhaust and HKS sports cats Dyno: Dastek (Gotboost Performance Tuning Ltd) BHP: 250.6 WHP / 280.5 BHP@fly Torque: 240.8 lbft Here's the crack chum, If you want to know what "the crack is" why don't you start your own thread rather than hijacking someone else's, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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