Nismo Manifold - is it worth it?

[BobbyZ]

Hi Mark, what about for an HR, as it revs higher as standard?

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Hi Mark, what about for an HR, as it revs higher as standard?

 

Bobby what are you thinking then? The HR gives a much bigger spread of torque then any of the other 350Z motors and with normal bolt ons will give 270/280 hub bhp easily , I have tuned a HR with PPE headers (don't know if there where the cheaper or more expensive merged collectors thou) car gave 290 hub bhp I seem to remember.

 

Again stock air boxes work best we have found.

[BobbyZ]

I'm thinking at some point I might give a decent road NA tune a go

 

Won't be spending that kind of cash for a while, but I'll be down your way again at some point soon so maybe can collar you for a chat then.

[Kaveney]

The world is doing it.... Just not the UK.

 

Don't want revup cams for the 340, need some very wild ones, like jwt c8 and above.

 

But thank you all for highlighting why no one on this forum tunes na.

Rather than approach it with 'interesting, no one here has managed that yet' you ridicule and shout it down.

The 'specialists' in the UK haven't really tried the right mods in the UK yet to get power.

 

Sorry but to fit cams into a 350Z motor is a lot of money , easier to do with the motor out in our opinion;

 

Then if your running wild cams you need to run more compression as the static compression will be dropped as the cam is wilder; new pistons needed;

 

I know Sasha when he was running his own company used to tune on a Dynapack. Used to throw idea between us. They used to use SAE conversion which will add around 10/15bhp to a bhp figure;

 

Your end up with a motor with a engine with a 2000rpm power band max that will not be nice to drive at small throttle openings and low RPM's , will require rev to make it go properly;

 

That's why us UK tuners always say go FI makes a more fun car easier to drive quickly on the road , but if the car is going to be a track car/race car yeah go for NA power but your also need a sequential gearbox to make the most of the narrow power band.

 

I did manage to run a car on our in house dyno today and recorded Vac in the plenum , reading in Absolute KPA we saw a increase in Vac from 0 to approx 0.003 kpa at the rev limit such a small increase , my thought is it the TB or the plenum design;

 

 

 

Same car recorded 270hub bhp thou pretty good number for a DE motor , circ approx 310 flywheel bhp , stock motor , headers, ART decat pipes, plenum spacer,stock airbox with velocity stack, Milltek system and a very good reamp with UPREV. a Stock DE will give around 235/240 hub bhp we have seen from all the cars we have run over the years.

 

 

With 94 K miles on the car as well

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Well we had a car in last week DE 350Z , good friend of mine brought a car that had a noise top end , he stripped the motor to find a tappet shim area worn away, so he changed this and I thought what a good time to fit a set of HKS cams 264 deg duration (will find full spec out) and he fitted Tomei headers at the same time.

 

Dyno plot for when we dropped the car on the dyno with original tune from previous Uprev;

 

Car was fitted with Plenum spacer,Velocity stack,De-cats and exhaust system + Uprev

 

Car gave the same power top end but less power at the bottom.

 

 

 

 

Dyno plot after tuning the cam position and playing with fuelling and timing

 

 

25bhp gain on this car but even at 278 hub bhp (estimated 318bhp flywheel) it is only around 18bhp up on a stage 3 tuned car ( plenum spacer,velocity stack,de-cats,good exhaust and UPREV tune)

 

We had to limit the amount of cam advance at the top end when running the HKS as running the inlet fully advanced lost a lot of power due to not having enough dynamic compression but still gave good numbers.

 

So the question is the costs to fit cams and headers worth it for 15+ bhp and the torque gain?

 

We see around 260/270 hub bhp from a stage 3 car now-days.

 

Dyno plot below for a car fitted with Plenum,Velocity stack, ART pipes and exhaust system with UPREV above car with Cams as well

 

 

gain off around 9 bhp and 5lb/ft torque. Now is that worth all the work off fitting cams, power still rolls over around 7000rpm as well

Edited January 21, 2016 by Mark@Abbey m/s

[andy10v]

Interesting info, thanks Mark.

[fake ben taylor]

So you fitted short tube headers and mild cams and are using that as a basis that decent cams and long tube headers (which is what produce the gains) isnt worth it....... Thanks :/

 

 

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

FBT,

 

Not saying this is the right way but it shows there is a small gain to come from Mild cams as you say and headers.

 

The issue is to run proper cams you need to change the valve springs/retainer which is even more work. When you say cams what spec you talking about are you going to change the valve springs and retainers? Going for more compression?

 

We are getting to the point where we might as well pull the motor, nice 4ltr conversion with high compression that will use the wilder cams and with some long headers will be a pretty awesome motor.

 

 

[fake ben taylor]

Jim Wolf C8's are a good cam, but minimum you want 270's, with their springs and retainers, can be done without pulling the engine, and cams on these arent that difficult a job...., jim wolf does a spring/retainer tool as well making that quite an easy job lol Also the vct on these engines lets pretty wild sounding cams stay perfectly streetable

 

Compression at this point doesnt add anything, its just wasted money for no gain.so might as well not go for that really.

 

And sbort tube headers are very differdnt to long tubes. We already know short tubes dont really do anything for the power.

 

I get that you're against n/a tuning, im not sure why, but it can create a very lively motor in these cars, without all the weight and cost of going charged. Stateside many people have done it, and its getting more popular. Im just trying to drag the ideas and availability of some of the items over to this side of the pond and puch the development of these cars

Edited January 23, 2016 by fake ben taylor

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Jim Wolf C8's are a good cam, but minimum you want 270's, with their springs and retainers, can be done without pulling the engine, and cams on these arent that difficult a job...., jim wolf does a spring/retainer tool as well making that quite an easy job lol Also the vct on these engines lets pretty wild sounding cams stay perfectly streetable

 

Compression at this point doesnt add anything, its just wasted money for no gain.so might as well not go for that really.

 

And sbort tube headers are very differdnt to long tubes. We already know short tubes dont really do anything for the power.

 

I get that you're against n/a tuning, im not sure why, but it can create a very lively motor in these cars, without all the weight and cost of going charged. Stateside many people have done it, and its getting more popular. Im just trying to drag the ideas and availability of some of the items over to this side of the pond and puch the development of these cars

 

 

 

I am not against running NA power remember I race a NA 350Z.

 

I will say running more compression isn't worth it isn't true , running a wilder cam loses dynamic compression so to get the best gains from cam motor a little more compression is needed.

 

For a track motor yes a cammed motor is good fun for a street motor you cant beat a FI motor.

 

I would love to have the time to fit a set of wilder cams/headers to a DE car but my track car is HR powered so I don't have a car to use. But I do know any car that I have fitted long headers to is loud so I cant fit them to my track car but me and Steve do have a set of PPE converge headers for our track car that we will fit when we build a motor sometime soon.

 

Will be good to see oyur car when you have finished the work , if you need a dyno to use come and use mine I do you some time free of charge to help oyu development process.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Mark@Abbey m/s

[fake ben taylor]

Ah cheers dude, thats a really good gesture

 

APW who are building my headers are also building my exhaust and going to make sure its under 95db to keep it track legal. Planning a swappable rear section so can remove a silencer for louder tracks

 

Hopefully once the house move etc is all done ill be getting the headers done amd some cams, tbough im now thinking of going itbs at the same time lol! Im just stuck sorting the suspension amd aero as cheaply as possible atm