Nismo Manifold - is it worth it?

[fake ben taylor]

You don't need to go as far as itb 's. All those power graphs are at the wheels.

 

Also if you look at the graphs you'll see it doesn't take crazy Revs to hit the peak power.

He used a motel as his race car came with it. Bit he has since replicated the results using revup.

Also only the valve springs need uprating with the cams, no relief cut outs are needed in the pistons. Jwt make the cams (who made the good inlet filter setup) and the springs and supply all the information required with them.

 

No crazy tuning needed. No crazy Revs. No crazy stand alone. No crazy internal work.

 

Factor in the added weight up front on an already nose heavy car and na tuning like this starts to make sense. Well to me at least.

 

For cams, headers and a remap you're looking at half the cost of a charger setup. And don't charger setups need fuel return systems, ecu, etc?

[fake ben taylor]

Grundy that isn't at all what I said.....

[HaydnH]

My recommendation is do it and see. I'm interested to see how it turns out... but please do a before/after dyno.

[fake ben taylor]

Before doesn't really matter.... Everyone knows what a stock de puts down at the wheels.

 

I was going to do it over this winter but have bought a other house instead lol so now waiting till the finances sort themselves out again

[Jetpilot]

Maybe my maths is out, so what your saying is to get 320 rwhp you need with your pricing:

 

Long tube headers £1500

Cams £900

Install £1000 ish

Uprev (guessing a fair amount of dyno time) £500

 

£4k give or take

 

Sorry, but thats no where near £1.5k for 320 rwhp

 

And from bitter experience, start chucking in larger throttle bodies and you will completely ruin the drive, it will only work well on full throttle.

 

I am fi and no fuel return system or ecu, 356 rwhp

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jetpilot

[fake ben taylor]

I never said 1500 for that. You guys have.

 

I said on a revup for near 320rwhp all you need is headers and a map after the obvious stuff is done like decat, plenum spacer etc that everyone does.

I then said how much those headers cost.

That's it. The rest you guys have made up between yourselves.

 

With cams, headers and a remap (you're adding install costs as a guess to na but not adding it to fi cost) and gtr injectors, bigger tb you're looking at near 340atw.

 

Howbthat has turned into all those things for 320 I don't know.

 

 

And on the bigger tb, again everyone stateside has been doing it for ages with no issues. There's a kit available plug and play already

[Jetpilot]

You're looking at £1500 for headers (after the usual bits are done) for not far off supercharger power.......

 

Guess it depends on your definition of "not far off supercharger power"

 

And yes, i bought an all single and dancing big thottle body for my Rx7 that the Amercians thought was great, it wasnt....

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jetpilot

[fake ben taylor]

This isn't an rx7, thought you were going to say you'd tried them on a z. This kit works fine and isn't stupidly bigger

[fake ben taylor]

320atw isn't that far off supercharger power in the grand scheme. But yes I was generalising.

 

Factor in the weight of a charger kit and I bet the power per ton isn't miles apart

Edited December 2, 2015 by fake ben taylor

[Grundy]

FWIW - Steve ran a TB - Full throttle, was nice, other than that, made his car run like @*!#.

[Jetpilot]

Fill your boots then buddy, you can be the ground breaking first UK 350z owner to get 340 rwhp na for less than the cost of fi

[Jetpilot]

FWIW - Steve ran a TB - Full throttle, was nice, other than that, made his car run like @*!#.

 

Exactly the problem with large throttle bodies, designed to get as much air in as possible at wot, sounds like a good thing until you realise you somehow have to tune to the car to run part throttle

Edited December 2, 2015 by Jetpilot

[Roscoe]

Very interested to see how this pans out! I like the sound of NA tuning the zed 😃 I agree there is decent power to be had without spending silly money just from following some builds from the US. ðŸ‘ðŸ»

[Grundy]

I'm all for NA - I'd love bigger cams, uprated internals etc. I'd rather have a 340bhp NA than Supercharger, purely to be different, I've driven Mouthwashes SC and I loved it, power delivery was insane.

I'd just like to be different with a lumpy loud revvy NA build.

 

But it's not as simple as being stated over and over again as well as it's NOT CHEAP. You're looking at £4k+ in parts. Not even including labour.

 

I looked at PPE headers, I did my research, as I had to put a new engine in my car, so headers were first on my list. Yes they're great, but it's like all other breather mods - It doesn't come with a guarantee BHP increase. I.e. Headers don't = +20BHP.

It's always all going to be down to the state of the engine.

 

If I put my car on a dyno

Result = 250bhp

Remap it with headers on

Result = 290 BHP

 

But then put another car on and do the same process

 

Start result = 270bhp

Result = 295bhp

 

It's not all black and white, it's not just a case of bolt on mods and get X increase in BHP.

People have achieved 300 with just Decats/Plenum/Zorst. But that's because there engine hadn't lost so many ponies over the years.

 

 

TL:DR - You can get 340bhp NA - But it's still going to cost min £4k.

[fake ben taylor]

Who's Steve and how big?

[Ekona]

I said on a revup for near 320rwhp all you need is headers and a map after the obvious stuff is done like decat, plenum spacer etc that everyone does.

That's the key bit though. You cannot assume that everyone does that. What it looks like is that you said you only need headers and remap for 320rwhp, which is of course wrong. You have in fairness explained it now, however that initial assumption has led to some misleading reading.

 

As you say, you will obviously need more than just headers and a remap for that kind of power, which then brings you closer to the realistic cost that everyone else is talking about.

[fake ben taylor]

Gah missed the extra page.

 

It won't cost £4k in parts alone.... Ive listed some costs, it's a lot less than that? And 300bhp with different plenum, exhaust and decats is very different to 300whp which the revup can do easily.....

 

But I'm bored of repeating myself. Ive shown proof of what can be done with much more out there and you're all bad mouthing it by twisting words and making stuff up. No proof or experience.

[fake ben taylor]

I said on a revup for near 320rwhp all you need is headers and a map after the obvious stuff is done like decat, plenum spacer etc that everyone does.

That's the key bit though. You cannot assume that everyone does that. What it looks like is that you said you only need headers and remap for 320rwhp, which is of course wrong. You have in fairness explained it now, however that initial assumption has led to some misleading reading.

 

As you say, you will obviously need more than just headers and a remap for that kind of power, which then brings you closer to the realistic cost that everyone else is talking about.

 

I said that right at the beginning... But most, if not all, fit an exhaust, plenum spacer and decats or hfc to their z.....

 

I always said after those. I just didn't include those as they tend to get done even on fi cars

[Jetpilot]

No proof or experience.

 

Which neither have you certainly not experience, perhaps our tuners have a better experience than all of us combined on this thread, obviously not, they dont know how to tune na power apparently.

 

American dynos on the most part over read compared to ours, its widely acknowledged.

 

Dynos are good for nothing more than pub trumps, how does his car drive? and i am not talking flat out in time attack

 

How bored will you get changing the headers every year so you can get through an mot?

 

I can absolutely guarantee though, we would love you to prove us wrong, so more power to you, ist nothing personal, but there are some good responses on this thread, if you choose to dismiss them, thats up to you

[fake ben taylor]

The dyno in the Link I posted pulls a std de at 210-220atw. That's not over reading so I tend to believe the results on that dyno.

 

I haven't seen any good posts other than people who haven't done it saying not to do it just because they assume it won't work or its too expensive?

 

I'm not bothered either way, I'm tuning mine na. Don't like the idea of adding weight to an already overweight car.

 

I was hoping to just add a bit of proof that na tuning these cars isn't expensive and produces good results If you do the right things. Hopefully others will read and take the 'don't go na' comments with a pinch of salt in future.

[docwra]

No proof or experience.

 

Which neither have you certainly not experience, perhaps our tuners have a better experience than all of us combined on this thread, obviously not, they dont know how to tune na power apparently.

 

OK, enough of this bitching.

 

We dont know how to tune N/A here, the stock answer is always "its not worth it" and that was what I used to say to people ......... until I took a bit of time to talk to Ben about it and look into the research he has done.

 

I CBA to check but I imagine he has linked up the the guys in the States that are seeing 340+ whp from NA engines, so if a couple of lads in their big American garajjjes can do it then you do have to ask the question why Abbey, Horsham etc cant.

 

Id also say its a pretty fair assumption that someone who is asking about headers and true N/A tuning will have spent the £500 and couple of hours doing the 350Z BPU's that are quoted on here pretty much every day.

 

Experience? In the past he has fitted a V8 to an S13, did his own adjustments to get the roll centres and other geo correct and then went and won the Time Attack handling challenge (with a ringer driver TBF) and then went onto spaceframe the front end of it. I know there are guys here that have done some modifications, but not like that.

 

Flame away, but the vast majority of owners on here have extremely limited tuning experience and generally just walk into a tuners and ask "how much?", to start picking at a guy who has made his own modificed cars and has taken the time to research and speak to guys over the pond that are at the cutting edge of VQ35 tuning is probably exactly why we are so far behind over here.

 

EDIT: to give you a nice example, about 10 years ago people were saying that an SR20 couldnt handle more than 330hp without forging, manifolds and a shitload of cash thrown at it.

I can now pick one up and make it 450hp for less than £1500. Technology moves forward, sure, but knowledge moves a lot more quickly if youre prepared to listen.

Edited December 2, 2015 by docwra

[Tricky-Ricky]

Gah missed the extra page.

 

It won't cost £4k in parts alone.... Ive listed some costs, it's a lot less than that? And 300bhp with different plenum, exhaust and decats is very different to 300whp which the revup can do easily.....

 

But I'm bored of repeating myself. Ive shown proof of what can be done with much more out there and you're all bad mouthing it by twisting words and making stuff up. No proof or experience.

 

When you do this to your own engine, and log ALL the costs and produce a dyno plot from a known tuner in the UK, or better still an engine dyno plot, then I will start to take your claims a little more seriously, but I'm afraid I have seen far too many outlandish claims from US tuners and their dyno plots to take them with more than a pinch of salt, I would be very interested to hear what Mark at Abbey, or Jez Horsham had to say on this subject, I believe that Abbey has a race tuned Z with a pokey DE in it....I wonder what the development cost of that engine was.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Tricky-Ricky

[docwra]

Ricky - youve got history with modded cars, is this not enough for you?

 

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1303-nissan-350z-vq35de-engine-build/

 

The guys is THE MAN in US VQ circles, I really dont think he would have got away with bullshitting for this long TBH ........

[Tricky-Ricky]

One further question I would have to ask is that IF the std DE is so easy to make power from, then why do people struggle to make more than 300 flywheel BHP with plenum spacer, ducats and exhausts from an UpRev remap?

Surly the addition of headders and long duration cams even if they are 300deg duration which is pretty high in my books, are then not any higher lift as well?

So your saying that this can make 320BHP at the wheels? so that would have to be being completely conservative 360BHP at the crank?

sorry but I am still incredulous. Going by what your saying

Either the Uprev tuners in the UK are short changing us, or they are far better in the US....wish I had bought the UpRev software myself now and seen what I could achieve with the DE.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Tricky-Ricky

[Tricky-Ricky]

Ricky - youve got history with modded cars, is this not enough for you?

 

http://www.superstre...e-engine-build/

 

The guys is THE MAN in US VQ circles, I really dont think he would have got away with bullshitting for this long TBH ........

 

 

Yeah I have seen that one a few times, however I have to say that he has put a LOT of time and money into that engine, and from what I know its nowhere near std ...lots of internal work and parts, but I am not saying it cant be done, just that the claims for the headders and cams are not going to make the extra 60 crankshaft bhp increase needed for that figure.