Cheating...

[BobbyZ]

I'm not saying everyone is on drugs in sports but I would say it's not confined to the Ruskies. I just think everyone else has developed ways of staying undetected.

 

Not exactly... if it was left to the governing bodies, almost everyone would stay undetected (or at least unpunished). It takes things like investigative journalism or a whistleblower to uncover things like this, as happened with Lance Armstrong. It nearly happened recently with Paula Radcliffe too, except her and the IAAF wriggled their way out of a proper investigation (as Armstrong did numerous times).

[Ceejay29]

PED's are rife in sport especially athletics; its a game of cat and mouse and governing bodies are a long way behind. They test for known substances and freeze 'B samples' for future testing because they are fully aware of current athletes cycling substances that are unknown. We're not just talking your generic anabolic oils, its hormone releasing peptides, EPO, gene cycling...the list is endless depending on how you desire to manipulate the body and its DNA.

 

Dopers are always ahead and anything/everything is available on the black market beit at the local gym or via the internet. It's not just the Russian's and Seb has no chance in guaranteeing a clean 2016 in Rio.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ceejay29

[Ceejay29]

I'm not saying everyone is on drugs in sports but I would say it's not confined to the Ruskies. I just think everyone else has developed ways of staying undetected.

 

[Ceejay29]

So how long should Russia be banned for then?

 

A year? Two? Five? Ten? Needs to be a big one IMHO, but what's reasonable? How hard do you punish athletes who have done nothing wrong?

 

The athletes should be banned for life as users can reap the benefits for as much as ten years later. The drugs boost cell numbers within muscle fibres and through muscle memory the body can redevelop at a greater rate.

[BobbyZ]

PED's are rife in sport especially athletics; its a game of cat and mouse and governing bodies are a long way behind. They test for known substances and freeze 'B samples' for future testing because they are fully aware of current athletes cycling substances that are unknown. We're not just talking your generic anabolic oils, its hormone releasing peptides, EPO, gene cycling...the list is endless depending on how you desire to manipulate the body and its DNA.

 

Dopers are always ahead and anything/everything is available on the black market beit at the local gym or via the internet. It's not just the Russian's and Seb has no chance in guaranteeing a clean 2016 in Rio.

 

True, but there's also the conflict of interest in governing bodies policing their own sports to consider.

[JetSet]

I find it really childish that a country's government will conspire to cheat to try and win at any cost.

 

Not just confined to cheating, how many countries import athletes from Kenya or Ethiopia for example? While its true that here in The U.K we also import athletes, like Tiffany Porter and Chris Froome and even Bradley Wiggins who was born in Belgium and had an Australian father. Of course all of these Athletes have at least one U.K born parent. To import athletes who have absolutely no connection and pay them a kings ransom like Qatar, Bahrain and Turkey just to push them up the medal table is morally wrong and The IAAF should stamp it out or introduce a 7 year residence rule.

 

 

Pete

[Flex]

So how long should Russia be banned for then?

 

A year? Two? Five? Ten? Needs to be a big one IMHO, but what's reasonable? How hard do you punish athletes who have done nothing wrong?

 

The athletes should be banned for life as users can reap the benefits for as much as ten years later. The drugs boost cell numbers within muscle fibres and through muscle memory the body can redevelop at a greater rate.

 

I think Ronnie was always clean though!

[RobPhoboS]

If you just think its one "country" cheating you're an imbecile, more cold war BS in the media, what a surprise.

 

(note - that's not pointed at anyone)

Edited November 12, 2015 by RobPhoboS

[coldel]

But the report was in response to the German documentary covering Russian widespread corruption in Athletics. Of course there are other countries, this is likely to come out in the follow up report which spreads the net wider.

[AliveBoy]

It's already been proved that the Americans are fond of doping, just look at Tyson Gay for an example of an athlete stripped of their 2012 medal.

[coldel]

I think there is quite a difference between doping of individuals (ie Tyson Gay) vs state sponsored doping which is what Russia is accused of. Every country has a cheater somewhere on their books but you would like to think that the state would be looking to stamp it out, not encourage it and cover it up which is what Russia is accused of.

[BobbyZ]

I would say the most governments are aware of what goes on to an extent at least, but turn a blind eye because sport is good for the economy.

[coldel]

I would love to know the source of that speculation, I would say on the whole thats not true!

[BobbyZ]

Well for example in the case of Lance Armstrong, it was well known that he doped before the official investigation ever started. Cycling in general was well known to be dirty. Either the politicians, law enforcement organisations etc. were blind or they didn't care, otherwise something would have been done about it. It's only when someone exposes a scandal that everyone acts like it's a huge deal, as is the case here.

 

I don't believe it's any different with other sports then cycling - I just don't buy that none of the ruling elite have any clue what goes on in professional sports. They're just not motivated to clean it up.

[coldel]

Its not up to the government to clean up sport, its up to the organisations that run the sports to clean it up. Its only when criminal investigations come into play on the scale of FIFA for example that a government feels compelled to get involved. They cannot also get involved based on speculation, it has to have some substance to it i.e. evidence which invariably comes from media/whistleblowers. I'm pretty sure everyone can say with some certainty that drugs are used in boxing, cycling, athletics, football etc. but its up to their organisations to sort that out along with independent bodies such as WADA.

 

If Cameron said tomorrow, right I am stumping up £20m to investigate drug taking in boxing and stamp it out, you would have most of the nation up in arms saying that its a waste of money when people are queuing at food banks etc. as well as the likes of WADA feeling somewhat aggrieved and asking why the government are intervening on their patch based on speculation.

[BobbyZ]

I agree with most of what you said - I don't think it is counter to my point that governments have a good idea of what goes on.

 

Re speculation, I used the example of Lance Armstrong because there was certainly enough evidence out there:

 

http://nyvelocity.com/articles/interviews/michael-ashenden/

[JetSet]

It's already been proved that the Americans are fond of doping, just look at Tyson Gay for an example of an athlete stripped of thused eir 2012 medal.

 

There was systematic doping in The States that lasted for 20 odd years. It wasn't state sponsored but involved training groups who were supplied by a company in San Francisco. It mainly involved sprinters and wasn't just confined to U.S athletes, Dwayne Chambers got caught because he trained with one of the sprinters groups in The U.S. It wasn't just in Athletics either, American Football, Baseball and Cycling have all had major drugs scandals. I'm sure that there are many U.K athletes across different sports who have used PED's at one time or another but its more of an individual thing over here.

 

When people question Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome, Paula Radcliffe, Mo Farrah and even Seb Coe then you get to see that the general public has become very cynical about the state of sport today. Not only that but when you have The IOC and FIFA to name but 2 of the world governing bodies clearly accepting bribes to host their events then you wonder if they'll ever sort things out.

 

Pete

Edited November 13, 2015 by JetSet

[BobbyZ]

I'm not sure why you included Radcliffe in that list - there's a good reason why people question her after the whole Sunday Times affair. British people do seem to have a strong tendency to believe in British sporting heroes unquestioningly though (not sure if it's the same in other countries).