Dual Action machine polishing for beginners?

[JoshC]

I've been thinking about buying a decent but reasonably price DA polisher to have a go of some minimal paint correction on my car. I know that I'd be better off taking it to a professional but I like having a go of things myself when I can and desperately want to sort my paint out but with MOT, service, tyres and new springs just forked out for I don't want to pay the big amounts I've been quoted to get it corrected.

 

The correction needed isn't major, just the usual swirls from washing the car etc. Is it possible to have a go as a weekend warrior without risking ruining my car?

 

Anyway, can anyone recommend the products (polisher, cutting agent, polish etc) I could use or have a guide for beginners or would the general consensus to be not to risk damaging my paint further?

 

Cheers,

Josh

[Stutopia]

There's some stuff here

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/94744-kestrel-das6-or-das6-pro-da-polisher/

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/77973-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-a-da-polisher/

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/82011-thinking-of-getting-a-dual-action-polisher/

 

The pros will be along shortly with the real info!

[TomS]

Not going to comment on pads or polishes as it's the worlds longest slippiest slope that every single person has a different opinion on!

 

If you're looking for a guide on how to use a DA then there's a great thread on Detailing World (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859) or if you prefer watching videos then watch Junkmans as it's great for beginners (

).

[Ricey]

Cheapest route in would be

Bilt Hamber clay bar

Kestrel something or another or Meguiars G220D polisher.

Best megium pad you can afford

Meguiars ultimate compound (chock full of fillers so don't expect true paint correction)

Wax of your choice (I like R222 Concourse wax)

 

Costco do bumper packs of microfibers - always fold them into a smaller square so sewn edges are tucked away.

 

Slow starting speed to spread the compound taking it up to 3 or 4 and polish in overlapping runs then change direction by 90 degrees and again do overlapping runs.

 

Work a small area (bonnet should be around 4 work areas) one at a time.

 

Change microfibers frequently.

 

Don't panic too much about damaging the paint......you'd have to be fairly spesh to damage paint with an entry level DA and ultimate compound (possible but pretty difficult )

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

[Jumzo]

Have a look on the polished bliss website. There are loads of guides, recommended products for specific paint types as well as all teh detailing products you could ever want to buy.

 

I went through a bit of a detailing phase a couple of years ago but struggle to find motivation for it these days

[ilogikal1]

There's some stuff here

 

http://www.350z-uk.c...ro-da-polisher/

http://www.350z-uk.c...-a-da-polisher/

http://www.350z-uk.c...ction-polisher/

 

The pros will be along shortly with the real info!

 

This.

 

Don't panic too much about damaging the paint......you'd have to be fairly spesh to damage paint with an entry level DA and ultimate compound (possible but pretty difficult )

 

And this.

 

And pretty much everything I've said on those other threads too.

[JoshC]

Cheers all! Plenty to read up on and think about. I'm trying to weigh up whether or not it's worth the investment in the polisher/pads etc which would mean I could obviously detail the car more than once or pay the extra to get it done by a pro.

 

This looks like a pretty good start pack to me?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kestrel-DAS6-DA-Polisher-with-2-Meguiars-Pads-and-Meguiars-105-and-205-/121768932379?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

 

Is that a good price for the package and are those Megs pads/compounds polishes any good and suitable for a beginner?

 

I already have a couple of different waxes I've used myself and quite happy with them.

Edited October 15, 2015 by JoshC

[Ricey]

Looks decent enough pal

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

[ZeppoJeff]

I may have a clean your car das pro 6 up for grabs soon with the backing plate and lake country pads if you are interested

[JoshC]

I may have a clean your car das pro 6 up for grabs soon with the backing plate and lake country pads if you are interested

Drop me a line when you do buddy with the details as I may well be interested! Any idea when you'll be selling?

[ZeppoJeff]

Yeah will do buddy.

I'm home next week so I'll give it a look out for you and get some pictures.

[JoshC]

Yeah will do buddy.

I'm home next week so I'll give it a look out for you and get some pictures.

 

Any idea roughly when you'll have details of the DA up for sale mate? Only asking now as I'm watching a couple on eBay which are ending this week but also considering just buying a new one in a package deal from CYC.com.

[JoshC]

I've picked up a DAS6 Pro+ with some Megs 105 & 205 and he logic pads, along worth a load of other new supplies for prep and wash. Just looking for a recommended sealant now that preferably can be applied with the DA?

[ilogikal1]

Absolutely no point in applying an LSP with a machine, sealants don't need be worked like a polish. Stick to applying by hand instead.

 

As for which one; what's your budget and confidence level?

[JoshC]

From watching countless videos on YouTube I just gathered that using a DA on a slow speed & fine finishing pad would give better more even coverage, waste less product and of course save time. Is this not the case in your opinion? Are there any reasons not to apply it by machine?

 

Either way I was looking at JetSeal 109 from CG or something in a similar price range and ease of use. And I gather that this can be used on windows and headlights as well as paint? Will also probably top it off with my usual wax that I use (Natty's paste wax).

 

 

Cheers

[ilogikal1]

Better coverage will depend on your technique - both with and without a machine. Even coverage is potentially more a realistic benefit.

Less waste I'm not convinced about myself, you'll always want to prime the pad before touching the paint and the sealant is more likely to dry out more quickly if being worked at the higher speed offered by a machine.

Save time, though, absolutely not IMO. It takes more time (and a lot more effort) to apply well by holding a 2kg machine up to a horizontal panel ensuring you apply even pressure over the full surface than it does to do the same with an applicator that weighs considerably less! Not to mention the additional set up time. With a machine, you'll also want larger pads for the flatter panels and smaller spot pads for just about every other panel to get good coverage. There's a fair amount of changing pads to cover a Z which isn't necessary when working by hand.

 

There's no real "you absolutely should not" reason to apply sealants by machine (using an appropriate pad of course!), there's just no real benefit to it and once you've tried it once you'll realise it's just not worth the effort.

 

 

As for JetSeal, some people swear by it.... I'm not one of those people. It's alright, but it's not great, IMO. Headlights shouldn't be an issue for it (it probably won't last as long as it does on paint though) but I'm not convinced by it's claims of use on glass - whatever you do, do NOT use it on the windscreen regardless! I'm sure you weren't going to, but just to be clear.

 

If you're planning a trip to Americaland any time soon, pick up some awesome AMMO Skin Defense (despite the wanky American spelling, it's a very good product!). However shipping to the UK is bit... eye watering. I'm not a huge fan of other liquid sealants though, so for cost, ease of use and durability reasons I'd always recommend FK 1000P, a paste sealant, or a spray sealant at a push... but you really can't apply those by machine.

 

Oh and Poorboys EX-P > JetSeal. But then a lot > EX-P too.

[Stutopia]

AMMO Skin FTW!

[roscopervis]

I'll back the FK1000P recommendation, very versatile and great VFM. I'd also throw in a couple of others - Bilt Hamber Double Speed Wax (it is a sealant in the same way FK1000P is), Sonax Polymer Netshield (PNS) and Fusso Soft 99 Light. They are slightly more durable on paint than the FK, don't have the high temp qualities, but still work well on wheels.

 

Jetseal is meh, was all the rage about 8 years ago, not that great TBH, there are lots of things much better.

[JoshC]

Cheers for the advice guys. Just to be clear, FK1000P is a sealant but has the texture of a carnuba wax or similar? And can it be applied underneath a regular carnuba wax as I was planning to Natty's Paste Wax over any sealant I apply?

 

Also, seeing as you've convinced me to stick to applying it by hand, are there any applicator pads you'd recommend using? I assume a foam one rather than a microfiber?

 

Wish I'd planned this all a lot sooner as I've been out in the US twice this summer and actually followed Larry from AMMO for a while on YouTube but never really looked at his products

[roscopervis]

Yes it applies like a traditional wax, but I'd think of all sealants and waxes as last stage products (LSP's). Natty's is decent but to my mind, the FK1000p is a superior product. It's job is to protect the paint which it does much better than the Nattys. The looks part doesn't come from the final LSP, it comes from the decontamination (detarring, de-ironing and claying) and the polishing, which removes or tries to cover the imperfections in the paint. That's where the DA really comes into it's own and that's it's job.

 

When it comes to LSP's I focus on durability, ease of use and self cleaning ability as looks wise they are virtually all the same. Junkman has some videos on Youtube on this. This is very subjective, much like hi-fi cable debates, all I'll say is add 2 layers to ensure coverage of a durable product over a well prepped surface and you're set.

[JoshC]

Yes it applies like a traditional wax, but I'd think of all sealants and waxes as last stage products (LSP's). Natty's is decent but to my mind, the FK1000p is a superior product. It's job is to protect the paint which it does much better than the Nattys. The looks part doesn't come from the final LSP, it comes from the decontamination (detarring, de-ironing and claying) and the polishing, which removes or tries to cover the imperfections in the paint. That's where the DA really comes into it's own and that's it's job.

 

When it comes to LSP's I focus on durability, ease of use and self cleaning ability as looks wise they are virtually all the same. Junkman has some videos on Youtube on this. This is very subjective, much like hi-fi cable debates, all I'll say is add 2 layers to ensure coverage of a durable product over a well prepped surface and you're set.

 

So you mean that FK1000p would replace the Natty's paste rather than use it in addition to it? My whole planned process for bodywork, which I have picked up from watching countless videos was;

Wash/snow foam

Decontaminate with clay

Second Wash

DA with compound

DA with polish

Apply sealant

Apply wax

 

Most videos I've seen have applied a liquid sealant then a paste wax. Would you not follow the same process with a paste sealant or are they in fact the same thing as a paste wax. Apologies for any confusion or stupid questions

[ilogikal1]

You can top FK with Natty's if you like, so long as FK goes down first it won't cause you any problems. There's not a great deal of point, Natty's will add to the look but it won't be noticeable really. It'll also add to the durability, but we're talking two or three weeks ish.

 

To be fair, that's the same regardless of paste, liquid or spray sealant.

 

In terms of your planned routine;

Snowfoam first then wash.

Personally I wouldn't really bother with the 2nd wash after claying either, especially if you're polishing. If the cars not clean by then, you're doing something wrong!

Also consider a wipe down after polishing - IPA/Eraser/Prep/panel wipe, whichever you fancy really - and before the sealant.

 

The only other steps you'll want to think about adding at this point is de-tar and decontamination (fallout remover) stages before the clay.

 

 

Also, Junkman sucks.

[roscopervis]

You can top FK with Natty's if you like, so long as FK goes down first it won't cause you any problems. There's not a great deal of point, Natty's will add to the look but it won't be noticeable really. It'll also add to the durability, but we're talking two or three weeks ish.

 

To be fair, that's the same regardless of paste, liquid or spray sealant.

 

In terms of your planned routine;

Snowfoam first then wash.

Personally I wouldn't really bother with the 2nd wash after claying either, especially if you're polishing. If the cars not clean by then, you're doing something wrong!

Also consider a wipe down after polishing - IPA/Eraser/Prep/panel wipe, whichever you fancy really - and before the sealant.

 

The only other steps you'll want to think about adding at this point is de-tar and decontamination (fallout remover) stages before the clay.

 

 

Also, Junkman sucks.

 

I actually think that 2 layers of FK1000p will last longer than a layer of FK1000p and a layer of Natty's. The Natty's will act as a sacrificial layer, but it's water behaviour and self cleaning ability are less good than the FK1000p.

 

Also, re Junkman - I wouldn't know

[ilogikal1]

Quite possibly, but FK is quite solventy so layering isn't really beneficial in itself - except to ensure coverage.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't necessarily top FK with anything myself, whether that be Natty's or a second coat of FK, but there's no harm in doing so if the desire took you.

[JoshC]

Cheers again for the advice both, think I'll add the fallout remover and panel wipe steps into my routine the, want to make sure I get the prep right!

 

Also meant to ask, can the regular sealants such as FK100p or Poorboys EX-P be used on wheels or do I need one specifically designed for wheels?