gangzoom Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) So I finally gave in and test drove a Tesla Model S yesterday... The Model I wanted to drive was either the 70D (240 mile range and 329bhp, AWD) or a 85S - 265 mile range, 370bhp, RWD. As these are the models I'm likely to buy. But the only one they had free was a P85D - The one with 'insane' mode and a 0-60 time to rival super cars. So here are my thoughts: 1 - Day to day use: The Tesla is no better or worse than the Leaf for general day to day commuting. They are both silent, refined and do what I expect an EV to do. Boths are leagues better than any ICE powered machine for commuting, going to the shops etc. 2 - Performance: From the a standing start the P85D is stupidly quick, I couldn't help but laugh out loud the first time I nailed the throttle from 0. BUT at speeds of >70mph it pulls no harder than my old 335i with the engine map turned up to 420bhp. Only difference been how it's delivers that power - no wheel spin, no drama, it just goes. I think this is because of the AWD and the very very clever TC system. I'm told the RWD version is more 'playful' but I'll have to wait to try one. 3 - Battery range: This was actually the biggest selling point of Model S. When driven in a normal fashion it has a range of over 250 miles. That's only marginally less than my old 335i with a full tank of fuel. Only difference been, a full tank in the 335i was £80 a pop versus <£10 on the Model S. Overall: I'm now 100% sure I'll be replacing the Leaf with a Model S come 2017 when my Leaf contract goes. But on the performance side of things, I don't think a P85D is worth £30K over a 70D. I need to drive the 70D, but 0-60 burn outs aren't what I'm buying a car to do. The main job of the car is go get me and my family from A to B, and allow me to have some fun if needed to. In that regard I have a feeling a £55K 70D will be just as good. If your after track day fun, the Model S isn't going to do it for you. It's acceleration is just TOO GOOD. I cannot emphasis enough just how easy it is to pick up speed in this thing. You don't need to worry about revs, gears, lag or even slippage. You just plant your foot and it goes, I suspect most people's grandmothers will be able to launch the Model S quicker from the line than even F1 drivers in any convental car - Which I suspect for people who love gears, clutches, heel-toeing will not see this as 'progress'. We are all after different things in a car and I appreciate its not for everyone but for ME, as a day to day car for the real world with decent poke, it's nearly perfect. The fact the car has the highest crash safety rating ever tested is more important feature than even a sub 3 second 0-60 time when I consider my family will be in the car quite often. Sadly I have to wait till my Leaf PCP deal expires before I can order the car. My wife has already picked the colour and options - 70D/85S in Black, 19inch wheels, standard coil suspension, upgraded seats, panoramic roof. Roll on Xmas 2016 **OK I just found out the test cars are limited to a set speed, this explains what doing 50-60mph + pulls the P85D wasn't as strong as I expected. Doesn't change my views, cannot afford a P85D anyways.** Edited September 12, 2015 by gangzoom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The tech in these cars is incredible, it's just a shame that electric and ugly go hand in hand. They're not ugly because they're electric, designers just fail at just about every electric car they've ever drawn, maybe because they want them to stand out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Have to agree - no amount of performance or technical wizardry could get me past the sheer ugliness of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne370Z Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 So I finally gave in and test drove a Tesla Model S yesterday... 3 - Battery range: This was actually the biggest selling point of Model S. When driven in a normal fashion it has a range of over 250 miles. That's only marginally less than my old 335i with a full tank of fuel. Only difference been, a full tank in the 335i was £80 a pop versus <£10 on the Model S. **OK I just found out the test cars are limited to a set speed, this explains what doing 50-60mph + pulls the P85D wasn't as strong as I expected. Doesn't change my views, cannot afford a P85D anyways.** There`s another difference surely ! Two minutes to fill the BMW up with fuel for another 250 miles to carry on with your trip compared to how long to charge the Tesla for another 250 before you can carry on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Is it significantly more ugly than a regular BMW or Merc rep mobile on the outside. The 50" screen airdropped into the dash is significantly uglier mind. Either way beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You reckon anything else might tempt you in the intervening 15 months? It's a long wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggalo Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I feel that between Tesla, Google and Apple, the death of driving is looming on the horizon. And it looks like a cross between Insignia and a A7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Either way beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You reckon anything else might tempt you in the intervening 15 months? It's a long wait. Your right beauty is a very subjective view. The best looking large saloon on the market in my view is the Quattroporte, the Model S has more than a passing resemblance, which in my book is not a bad thing. It’s 100% better looking than my old BMW 3 series As for the wait, it’s no that long….Some on here is waiting longer for a Ford In-anycase in the last 12 months Tesla have given the base-spec car more power, longer range, more gadgets standard, and introduced 4 WD - for only a minimal increase in price. I’ll be amazed if the MY17 Model S ends up running the same feature/spec as the the current MY15 cars. The rumours on the Tesla forums are full LED head lights, another 5-10% increase in battery size, and a mild face-lift is due in the next 12 months. There`s another difference surely ! Two minutes to fill the BMW up with fuel for another 250 miles to carry on with your trip compared to how long to charge the Tesla for another 250 before you can carry on ? I’m not going to get into another debate into EV charging versus normal cars. The fact is I’ve done over 3000 miles in my Leaf since May with not issues despite the Leaf having a range of less than 100 miles. A Model S with 250 miles of real life range is more than enough for 99.9% of my driving needs. For the other 0.1% I’ll use my wifes Lexus. Edited September 12, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 What is the full charging time on these things anyway? Electric cars should have a roof with a solar panel. Might help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrE004 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Full charging time on a Model S is very dependant on what source you charge it from. From a Three-pin plug you can expect to be charging for a full 14 hours if you need to go from almost 0% to the recommended 85% battery charge, however Tesla practically throw in the first level unrated charging box for the home, when you buy the car New and Direct (only option really). With this charger the time for full charge drops significantly, to approx. 8 hours (so overnight as that is when you're likely to do it). There is a second upgrade available with Powerwall, another Tesla product. But the best option, and more readily available by the month is the Supercharger, which they are hoping to get to all major motorway services, this charges 80% of the battery in 30 mins, which, by the time you've driven the 300miles to Require a charge, chances are you should recharge for a bit too. I really like the Tesla, sadly the Model S in all guises is way out of my price range, I'm sort of waiting for Model III, around 2017, or hoping that another company uses Teslas free patents to develop an electric 2-seater sports coupe, with a 200-300 mile range. Well we can all dream a bit.... MrE004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) ^^ Tesla have started an official pre-owned program in the UK. All the cars have a 4 year warranty (no servicing required to keep the warrant valid), and the remaining, 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty on the battery pack. Sadly only 4 cars on it at the moment, and the cheapest still £60K!!! http://www.teslamoto...models/preowned A new roadster is coming, but till 2020, don't expect it to be cheap though - Current 4-5 year old roadster are still going for £50K. http://www.autocar.c...ter-launch-2019 Infiniti has apparently restarted developing an EV, aiming for 200 miles of range - No idea if thats the realistic EPA rating or the pointless NEDC rating, which puts the current Leaf at 120 miles, when in reality its more like 80-90 miles. Charging just isn't an issue with the Model S, I've had no problems with my Leaf and that has 30% the range of the Model S. Edited September 13, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Correction; charging just isn't an issue FOR YOU. There are many people in the world, and even in this very country, that need to do more than 255 miles every 8-14 hours. Half hour charging times aren't too bad but even that's a step backwards, and just how many places offer this currently anyway? It's all well and good HOPING to be able to readily offer this service, but actually being able to achieve that is a very different thing altogether! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 If your doing 500 miles every 24 hrs, over working year that's 117,000 miles which is around £14k in fuel costs. Yes you have to wait 20-30 minutes for a recharges every 200 miles + but supercharging is Free, even if you pay for charging at home 117k will cost £4k, add in 5% BIK tax and a Model S will save you a fair bit on your travelling costs. So taking slightly longer to refuel and saving £10K+ a year, I know which I'll choose, don't forget the unlimited millage warranty on the Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenWomble Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I think they have done well to get it to a 250 mile range. it's just starting to verge on being practical. i spent 5 years in a car with a 250 mile motorway range (180 in town) and while it was often a pain as i'd have to stop for gas on the longer trips up the country (i rack up a lot of motorway miles) i was very happy with that car. so when the superchargers are out then i think that will be a good starting point to make electric a viable choice for long hauls. when trucking up from kent to yorkshire late at night i'll always take the M1 for the 24hr services, so if they hit all the service stations that will be enough of an infrastructure. i think for any long hauls inside england a 250 mile range if perfectly workable with a 30 min break. that's not to say it's ideal, but after living it for 5 years it's very workable for a car you enjoy. now obviously my last car doesn't even begin to compare to my new zed, but that's not so much the extended range, more having double the hp/ton so maybe not for everyone, but just the right side of practicality for people to start saying yes to electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 So taking slightly longer to refuel and saving £10K+ a year, I know which I'll choose, don't forget the unlimited millage warranty on the Tesla And now that the EU has decided that travelling IS working, I know which the employers will chose! Even with the unlimited millage (sic) warranty on a Tesla. Also, that still relies on the Supercharging points actually being available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 ^^ The Tesla guy who accompanied me on the test drive use to work for Ferrari, he was quite open about the fact alot of Tesla customers are buying the car over a other £100K+ cars for 'tax efficiency'. I'm no accountant, but it sounds like you can claim back any tax you have paid on profits from buissness against list price of the car...add in 5% BIK tax, essentially the car becomes a massive £120K tax reduction scheme. Which might explain to a degree most buyers are going for the £80K+ models rather than the cheaper base models. I'm pretty sure there will be many who have good enough accountants to mean they are essentially driving a P85D for the same cost of what I'm paying on the Leaf . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You really believe someone who can afford a 458 is worried about tax implications?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) You really believe someone who can afford a 458 is worried about tax implications?? How do you think people end up been able to afford a 458 (footballer excluded) I know of people who own multiple homes but still keep a select number on a interest only-mortagage for 'tax efficiency'. Why does a company the size/success of Apple still have $45 billion worth of debt.... http://americasmarke...even-more-debt/ The higher your income the more tax you pay, and the more important it becomes to improve your 'tax efficiency' Edited September 14, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Your missing the point, no one is trading in their 458 for a Tesla so it makes zero difference what tax they do or dont pay, they will probably have a Tesla or alternate ev/hyrbid as well for the tax breaks if they want to put a car through the company books you do know he is a "salesman", he wants to sell you a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Your missing the point, no one is trading in their 458 for a Tesla so it makes zero difference what tax they do or dont pay, they will probably have a Tesla or alternate ev/hyrbid as well for the tax breaks if they want to put a car through the company books you do know he is a "salesman", he wants to sell you a car I think we will always have disagreements on certain view points in life. I don't have a big enough pre-tax income to warranty needing an accountant - well not yet anyways, ask me in a few years . But even I can see how not paying tax on £120K is a proposition you don't want to ignore, regardless of your views on cars - especially given the end product is get to drive a P85D - which in it self costs next to nothing to run. I also made it pretty clear I didn't have the cash for P85D, and actually the most biggest sales pitch I got was when he gave me his card at the end of the test drive, and told me to just email him when I'm ready to order, and he'll sort out test drive in what ever Model S model configuration I wanted . Edited September 14, 2015 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Nice little write up - I like the Tesla Model S, think it looks good, certainly goes well and a range of 250 miles would be plenty acceptable to me - I maybe do one trip a year where i'd need to do more than that, in which case i'd take another car. Obviously have to understand the limitations of an electric car, if long recharge times are a problem then its not for you. would I pick one over my 335i? not just yet, still like the noisy mechanical bits (although I have got used to the auto box :o)... but a car with equal power to a 335i, but greatly reduced running costs? its very tempting. And also I have my (considerably slower) track car for driving heel and toe redlining every gear pleasures, for simple wafting to work or seeing friends or weekends away, a Tesla would be fine (assuming its within the 250 round trip range) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I don't think the Tesla is ugly, I think it's worse than that: I think it's bland. I have no particular feelings over the looks one way or another, it just blends it with everything else on the roads. at speeds of >70mph it pulls no harder than my old 335i with the engine map turned up to 420bhp. Only difference been how it's delivers that power - no wheel spin, no drama, it just goes. I think this is because of the AWD and the very very clever TC system. I'm told the RWD version is more 'playful' but I'll have to wait to try one. See, that to me would write it off straight away, as I like a little drama in my cars. However, nice write up, glad you enjoyed it (but then I think we all knew you would!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsexr Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It would have been a miracle if he did`nt... I need petrol in my life but being fair the steam guys probably felt like that at first. We would be foolish to write off EV as who knows how good they will get and you could always get a wire wheel conversion and stick some card on the spokes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I think we have to keep things in perspective here... obviously a tesla will never compare to a lotus elise, or even a manual V8 BMW 6 series. However if you're in the market for something fast and near silent to waft along motorways and A roads, ie Merc E class, Audi S6, BMW 630d auto) and don't mind the range/charging issues, you'd be seriously considering a tesla, surely. If your daily commute was 60 miles up the M1 and back and you were happy enough plugging a car in to charge overnight when you get home, you'd be saving a small fortune by switching to electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Agreed. As a waftmobile for the commute then yes, I'd happily go electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Your missing the point, no one is trading in their 458 for a Tesla so it makes zero difference what tax they do or dont pay, they will probably have a Tesla or alternate ev/hyrbid as well for the tax breaks if they want to put a car through the company books you do know he is a "salesman", he wants to sell you a car I think we will always have disagreements on certain view points in life. I don't have a big enough pre-tax income to warranty needing an accountant - well not yet anyways, ask me in a few years . But even I can see how not paying tax on £120K is a proposition you don't want to ignore, regardless of your views on cars - especially given the end product is get to drive a P85D - which in it self costs next to nothing to run. I also made it pretty clear I didn't have the cash for P85D, and actually the most biggest sales pitch I got was when he gave me his card at the end of the test drive, and told me to just email him when I'm ready to order, and he'll sort out test drive in what ever Model S model configuration I wanted . Agreed, who wouldnt want to save money, but that is only if you are putting it through as a company car Your suggesting that people are buying Teslas instead of Ferraris, or the salesman was, as mentioned, do you really believe people who are looking to buy a 458 (or whatever hypercar) think, do you know what, i think i will get a Tesla instead, i know your a Tesla fanboi but not even you believe that spiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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