MeisterR Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A common question many owner ask: How does MeisterR coilovers compare to other brands? As coilovers are only part of a car's suspensions, and there are many other variable involved; it is often a difficult questions to answer. So I want to bring up a very interesting "test" that we will be doing. Here in Houston USA, I meet a driver at a local SCCA Auto Solo event name Lucio D'lsep. Lucio was an Italian racing driver back in the early 2000's, and have decided to get back into competitive motorsport after being absent for over 12 years. Here is a picture of him in the former glory days racing with Osella in Rechberg (Austria) back in 2002. Lucio's current car is a Honda S2000 daily driver that runs in the SCCA Auto Solo STR (Street Touring Roadster) Class. The good thing about the STR class is that the rules limit modification you can do as well as tyres you can use, thus creating a class that daily street driven cars can compete with each other. Suspension Issue Speaking to Lucio, he have been having issue with his car. He is using an off the shelf Bilstein PSS9 adjustable coilovers, and he just couldn't get the suspension to work with the car. The tyres just couldn't find grip and the body motion does not feel controlled no matter how he adjust the coilovers, so he is struggling to keep speed through the corners as well as keeping the car on the racing line. The result is lost traction as well as hitting cones, and this put a time penalty on his result. MeisterR Suspensions Change I thought this will make a great opportunity to test the MeisterR coilovers against Bilstein, and will keep things fair as we can get a qualitative (how the suspensions feel on the road) and a quantitative (Lap time) feedback on the same road car driven by the same driver in the same competitive event. So we got a set of off the shelf MeisterR Zeta-R coilovers, and swap the Bilstein PSS9 coilovers out. Initial Feedback on MeisterR coilovers The initial feedback by Lucio is positive after a few days of street use. Here is what Lucio have to say: Both the Bilstein and the MeisterR look like serious tools and not toys. The MeisterR out of the box are ready for the installation, the light weight aluminium top mount included with the MeisterR is the main difference when compared to the Bilstein that need to reuse the top mount from the original Honda suspension. After 12 years out of racing it’s the first time that I see a suspension with springs coil adjustments independent from ride height adjustments. This is a great improvement and it mean no more compromise when adjusting the ride height. Compare to the Bilstein, the MeisterR damping response and compliancy on the irregularity of the street gives you confidence. You are able to feel the grip and trust the car/tyres, and know that when the grip finish there will be space for correction. The accuracy of the steering is what impressed me the most with the MeisterR coilovers. The front of the car is on track followed by the rear even with the non-linear power curve of the S2000 engine trying to mess up your approach to the apex. It is also more comfortable on softer damping setting. If your potential girlfriend has already experienced sport cars, she will not complain about comfort as softer damping setting is not so far from the original equipment. SCCA Result with Bilstein The last round of the SCCA Auto Solo, Lucio finished in 7th place with 13 competitors total. While the lap time of 51.297 isn't slow, the additional penalties from hitting cones brought his result down to 7th place. The next round of the SCCA Auto Solo will be this Saturday 2nd of August, 2015. We will get the S2000 to the track and hope we finish on the podium, because when you race you race to win. We will report back in a few days time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPhoboS Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Definitely looking forward to the report, and any video if he get's some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Posting the before times without knowing the after times shows confidence in your products, I'm looking forward to seeing the results. Some more information on how the lap time is given would be of use though, I assume from the table it's 4 laps and an average time is taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 We also need to see alignment settings across both setups, just to confirm that nothing has changed there that could affect the outcome. But yeah, this is a great idea for a thread, fair play to you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 To be honest I cannot say what the outcome will be, we will find out tomorrow. It may be faster, it may be slower… but I want this to be a meaningful exercise. Lucio do have video of the last round, and we will have video of the round coming also. As Auto Solo layout change during each event, the only meaningful way to compare is to take his fastest time vs the average fastest time of all other competitors, that way it won't seems "rigged". I will check alignment specs with Lucio because I know he is using the same spec. But I am not sure if he is aligning the car with a fishing string as he is old school. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 If hes changed top mounts then Id be amazed if the alignment is identical, also, how old are the Bilsteins? Are the spring rates the same as well? Regardless though, fair play for doing this, shows a lot of faith in your product and hopefully will provide some interesting results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 If hes changed top mounts then Id be amazed if the alignment is identical, also, how old are the Bilsteins? Are the spring rates the same as well? Regardless though, fair play for doing this, shows a lot of faith in your product and hopefully will provide some interesting results The MeisterR Top mount is on centre just as the OEM top mount, so the position should be the same. The Bilstein is under 1 year old as far as I know, as Lucio only started competing in the S2000 this year and mods was done for the competition. These are off the shelf spec vs. off the shelf spec, as provided by Bilstein / MeisterR. From what S2000 owners tell me, the Bilstein springs rate is a bit softer. Bilstein: 6.16kg/mm front, 5kg/mm rear MeisterR: 10kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear So the MeisterR is a bit stiffer on the springs rate, but then at the same time both kit is being used for the same purposes: A daily driven road car with occasional competition use. We didn't change anything because as soon as you throw in a "custom" element into the mix, then all kind of variable are raise. If the MeisterR isn't any less comfortable than the Bilstein in road use, then it is still achieving the main objective of being a good daily driven road cars. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Can you build your coilovers to spec ie if I provided corner weights etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Can you build your coilovers to spec ie if I provided corner weights etc We can do that with the GT1 spec. And can be a little more involving than just corner weight, because we would need to worry about everything else such as motion ratio, tyre compound, usage, etc. But yes… we can build something specific for your car and for your need if you want that done. Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 How would this affect pricing would it dramatically increase if you wanted it done ? Could you pm some price list over for the 370z I'm looking into coilovers in the comming months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Great thread .... And I'm putting my money on yours being faster than the bilsteins ...... And if they are as good on road as the bilsteins are ment to be ill be swiftly ordering a set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 How would this affect pricing would it dramatically increase if you wanted it done ? Could you pm some price list over for the 370z I'm looking into coilovers in the comming months I'm sure they could do a deal for 2 sets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) I could be down with that Need to do some research into this range tho In as what range compares to say the v3 or somthing Edited August 1, 2015 by nissanman312 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 I could be down with that Need to do some research into this range tho In as what range compares to say the v3 or somthing The GT1 are £1650, and normally a little more once you need something custom but I can always help out depending on what it is. The thing is that you got to build the suspension for the right purposes, so while you can pull something off the shelf you can do a better job if you tailor made the suspension for a specific car for a specific purposes. But let me know what you are after and we can make something bespoke that will work for your need. Great thread .... And I'm putting my money on yours being faster than the bilsteins ...... And if they are as good on road as the bilsteins are ment to be ill be swiftly ordering a set Just to say I got the date wrong, the auto solo event is actually tomorrow. So i should have some result once everything are updated with SCCA. One thing I do want to mention is that DO NOT TAKE THE RESULT TOO SERIOUSLY… It is meant to be a light hearted fun exercise, I am not out to prove MeisterR or Bilstein. There are still a lot of variable, and it is still subjective one way or the other. Some feel that I was out with an agenda, and really that wasn't the case. I would of wait until the result are in before I post anything if it was to ensure MeisterR is better. I post this up before the event, and will post the result whatever it is MeisterR being faster or slower makes no difference to me. That is it, I will report back once result are in. Jerrick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well said Jerrick. Not all suspension works for every driver, even if it is technically superior. That Meister R suspension components can even come close to a massive manufacturer like Bilstein is a huge achievement in itself: To surpass their performance on track (if they do!) is massive. As Jerrick says, a lot of this is subjective anyway, but this is still an entertaining and worthwhile thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well said Jerrick. Not all suspension works for every driver, even if it is technically superior. That Meister R suspension components can even come close to a massive manufacturer like Bilstein is a huge achievement in itself: To surpass their performance on track (if they do!) is massive. As Jerrick says, a lot of this is subjective anyway, but this is still an entertaining and worthwhile thread. Yep, lets hope so. I am off to the track now, will report back. Weather is looking good so lets hope for some good lap time. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Guessing he didn't get on with them then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Sorry for the delay, been a hectic week for Lucio and I... and I only want to post things once I have everything in place. The result are in, and it was very close racing! Lucio finish the day 3rd in the SCCA STR class the fastest time of 53.244, only 0.012 second behind 2nd place! The first 3 place in the class was separated by less than 0.2 seconds... Lucio time also made him the fastest S2000 of the day, with a 13th overall in raw time. Pretty respectable considering he is only 6.5 seconds behind the 1st place, and that was a fully prep Racing Go-Kart. Another interesting thing was we had 2 driver that day using the same car. Lucio was number 14 who finish 3rd, and Landon who was number 114 and finished 4th. It was interesting to see as both driver have different preference, so both found the best suspension setting that suit their driving style. They also tired out each other suspension setting to give a comparison but it was Lucio who was just a little faster in the end. The next car down is almost 2 seconds behind, so the front runner are fast compare to the rest of the group. Objective Result As Auto Solo track layout changes at every event, it is difficult to compare raw track time. The best way to compare is to use average time between driver who attended both event, so that is what we will do. In SCCA, each time you hit a cone you add 2 seconds penalty to your total time. Lucio time in round 7 was 55.297 after a 4 second penalty, so his raw track time was 51.297 which would of place him in 3rd place in the STR class. We will use the raw time for comparison. Round 7 (raw time 51.297) STR class average: 53.76 (beat average by 2.46 seconds). Total average: 56.65 (beat average by 5.35 seconds). Round 8 (raw time 53.244) STR class average: 55.90 (beat average by 2.65 seconds). Total average: 58.93 (beat average by 5.68 seconds). Difference between round 7 and round 8 STR class average: 0.19 seconds improvement Total Average: 0.33 seconds improvement So all in all, an improvement but wasn’t catastrophic. The biggest difference was getting 3 clean runs in round 8 vs no clean run in round 7. The clean run make a huge difference to the final result. Lucio was ranked 13th overall in round 8, but ranked 65th overall in round 7 just to show the difference. Subjective Feedback Getting feedback from Lucio after the end of the day, here is what he have to say: The car was tested on the street and the 90% of the set up was clean, the remaining 10% set up are based on driver preference. It was cool to see how Landon and I were able to select different set up to suit our driving preference on the same car, and really show how much difference a few clicks on the damper made to the overall dynamic. My driving is pretty aggressive and I was able to maintain the car ON the track with just one penalty on the first run Vs the previous race where I was not able to obtain a clean run in the all day. Adjusting the suspension to a softer setting for the 45 minute drive home was also impressive. I was not used to have a comfortable feeling in this car and at one point I visually checked the tire's pressure to see if everything was fine. The best proof was my 16 years old daughter in the passenger seat who does not have a lot of experience in sport car felt comfortable enough to take a nap during the driving home. Overall, it has been a big improvement and I am please with the result. Conclusion So that is it, an improvement but not a huge amount as expected. Auto-Solo only give about 60 seconds worth of track time and speed aren’t fast, so a lot of importance are place on the tyres and how much traction it can generate. The S2000 never made it out of second gear on the day, and this type of tight track favour the lighter MX5 / Miata. To be able to keep up with cars that is 500lbs lighter is quite an impressive achievement given the fact that there aren’t enough “straight†to allow the S2000 to use it’s upper power band. I hope this was an interesting read, and we certainly enjoy the experience working with the driver. 3rd place finish aren’t back, but we will hope to see 1st place in the future. Jerrick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Thanks for that , and yes a interesting read indeed . What coilovers is he using on his s2000? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Thanks for that , and yes a interesting read indeed . What coilovers is he using on his s2000? Thanks MeisterR Zeta-R, standard springs rate of 10/8. We purposely use the entry level mass produced coilovers in this test, because custom build coilovers like the GT1 will almost be unfair against the Bilstein. After all, it was a comparison of an off the shelve product vs. an off the shelf product. Jerrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 In 15+ years on forums this is probably the first time Ive seen a manufacturer do this, fair play to you Jerrick Ill certainly be speaking to you when Im next looking for some suspension, do you do anything for E82 BMW's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 In 15+ years on forums this is probably the first time Ive seen a manufacturer do this, fair play to you Jerrick Ill certainly be speaking to you when Im next looking for some suspension, do you do anything for E82 BMW's? We have Zeta-R for the E82 BMW 1-series in stock. It was a fun exercise, it was great meeting and chatting to the other driver also. There was a convoy of track car to a local Mexican restaurant after the race, it was all great fun. Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeisterR Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Just an update on this as we just had Race 9. I am happy to report that Lucio have taken 1st place in Class. There is 12 race in the season, so we will see how the end of the year go. The last race will be on December 6th. We hope for a podium finish in the championship, will see how it goes. Jerrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaveney Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Top bit of kit . Still very impressed with my ones . Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.