gangzoom

I'm sure your love the Leaf. I'm coming up to 4000 miles in mine (3800 as of yesterday). Checked how much electricity I've used in the last 6 months....£34!!! - That's would get me less than half a tank for my old 335i With winter coming my wife is living the pre-heaing feature. No more standing out in the cold defrosting - Car all ready to go and warm by the time we get in . My in-laws has just order a Zoe to replace their Mini. £500 deposit, £158/month - including battery rental, 7.5k miles per year. 2 year deal, free home charger and free first service. It's crazy money for a brand new car, let alone one costs next to nothing to run. As a day to day to run about - it's a no brainer. Tesla have just started production of their Model X....Love the doors, the performance but I'm just too poor to afford one . Starting price is around under £70K, just the £4K deposit alone is nearly now much my Leaf is going to cost to run over 2 year, and UK cars wouldn't be here till 2017....But luckily the Model S is deprecating nicely, the RWD 85kWh version is just about to creep under £50K, so in budget already, give it another 12 months and a fully loaded P85+ should drop within budget

I think your been paranoid. If everything checks out than its all good. Real life is always more complicated than fiction, why makes up such a complicated story if they are just trying to rip you off....It easier to make up some other story Just enjoy the new car.

^^ You really do have some odd fascination with keeping things at the status quo.... The words of the Shell CEO on the future of oil prices/energy production: "I have no hesitation to predict that in years to come solar will be the dominant backbone of our energy system, certainly of the electricity system." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34274352

^^ I could never understand how the 350Z weighed so much in the first place. Even things like the new XE, for all the talk of using aluminium it still weighs pretty much the same as any D segment car. But for extra power with FI, surely there is more to come. F1 cars were pushing 800bhp in race trim from a 1.5L blown unit 30 years ago.

Since finishing GTA V I haven't touched my Xbox 360 for probably 8 months, got MGS on the 360 about 1 week ago, it really is good. I completed the last MGS on PS3 but this one takes it to a whole new level. It's as the reviews say, you can actually do any mission any way you like.....and there is no sitting through 20-30 minutes of un-skippable cut scene this time....Well not much On the 360 is looks decent and very playable - just got the combat missions activated, I imagine on a PS4/Xbox One it must look amazing!!

Thanks for the info as I've said I know nothing about accounts and don't have a big enough income to warrant having an accountant When the time comes I may come to you for help to make the numbers work better!! There's nothing wrong with wireless charging, its simply very inefficient, and plugging a cable into your car is about as hard as plugging a cable into your phone/laptop, so interms of energy used/development cost it seems a bit pointless. At lower charge rates a bit of inefficiency doesn't matter, but at SC/Rapid charger rates been proposed 150-200KW, thats a lot of energy to waste for 30 seconds of convince...But thats not going to stop the government from wasting a few hundred millions on the exploring how to make a wireless motorway charging lane

I'm aware of all that, but it's only now VW have put two cars on the show that look like they will likely go into production. The motors in the Porsche looks interesting, especially about heat management, though I always thought it was the battery heat management that limited Tesla for track work. But I know VW are using LG for their batteries which is a different chemistry from Tesla. If priced like for like, with similar specs, I'll pick the Porsche badge over a Tesla....will mean holding on the Leaf till 2018....So potentially an extra 12 months of milk float jokes

Nissan showed this way back in 2011....I think the really slow initial sales of the Leaf put an end to it before they could really think about production. Electric or not, it still looks more like a Z than what's been shown now.....But the Juke/Quasqhuai are by far Nissan's best sellers, so you can see why the management want more of the same . http://www.wired.com...tric-z-concept/

"The concept uses a version of Nissan’s PureDrive Hybrid system, with a petrol engine acting as a range extender to keep the batteries charged and electric motors driving all four wheels" So not only a ugly crossover, but also an electric car - Though not a proper electric car, its still got a petrol engine in it to charge the batteries

Clearly VW feels its interesting enough to pour a heap of £££ into EVs....Personally I've never liked any VW group based product, VW/Audi/Porsche none of them have ever interested me. But they've put their £££ down and starting to show some potential. Nissan is already fully committed to EVs, but sadly Infiniti simply don't have the budget to develop something that will rival Audi/Porsche/Tesla. Like it or not more and more EVs are coming, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Nissan stick a EV drivetrain in the next Z, they are already hinting it's going to be cross over, so it's not beyond imagination they might do a whole drivetrain change.....I bet your guys are looking forwards to that

It would if you could buy one today, but you cannot, not till 2018 at the earliest Still it looks good, makes me wonder what to do in come late 2016/early 2017. The Audi-e-tron looks like it's going to make it to production too by 2018, so VW are putting plenty of cash behind EVs. http://www.autoblog....-mile-electric/ Jaguar/Landrover are apparently prepping a full EV too, that test bed chassis looks almost identical to the Model S chassis. http://newsroom.jagu...ertrain_090915/ Will be interesting to see who can get what out into production the quickest - Either way looks like plenty of choices will be coming in the £50K+ EV market

It looks like Porsche are finally taking the EV stuff seriously: 600bhp 300 mile range 15 minute recharge time - via 800 volts (current max is 400 volts on Tesla SuperChargers) and it doesn't look half bad No idea about actual production or price, but I suspect £100k+ to compete with a P90D-L.....Things are starting to get interesting on the EV performance super saloon side of things Porsche Mission E press release | PistonHeads

I cannot afford a £120K car anyways.... But it looks like plenty of people can, a whole load of P85+ models have just appeared on Tesla's pre-owned website. I presume these are from people upgrading to the P85D......400bhp, over 260 miles of range, 0-60 in 4 seconds, about £90-100K 12 months ago. Hopefully they will drop down to £50K in another 12 months http://www.teslamoto...models/preowned

Higher rate tax payers pay 50% tax. So to pay to for a £120K item post tax, you have to earn £240K pre-tax. You than need to add in NI (10%). Than I'm sure theres all sorts of other things to do with pension for employees etc. The more you earn the more ridicules your tax bill becomes, once our house hold income gets to over a set figure I'm getting my self an accountant to improve our tax 'efficiency' .

It's not about believing any spiel, its about common sense with money. People don't get rich by throwing their cash around, celebrities/sports people may, but 'working' people in the City, CEO of large companies understand fully the value of money and how to work the tax system in their favour. They may be able to afford X/Y/Z, but you don't get to the top of the financial ladder without a high degree of self control and financial sense. A £120K P85D Model S costs £0 in road tax, £0 in congestion charge, next to nothing to service, 5% BIK, next to nothing to fuel, but will still deliver a 0-60 time to harass super-cars. You need to remember a £120K+ car actually costs £270K+ pre tax/NI income/profit. Unless your playing in the Premiership your be crazy not to have an accountant to work out how better to 'afford' a £120K car, because paying that amount out as your post-tax income is crazy.

Where do you go to fuel your Z? I have a guess your nearest petrol station? If you have an EV and off-road/allocated parking, where would you go and recharge your car.....The nearest charge point, which would be your drive/garage. This is what I do these days, I charge up when out and about shopping etc, but if needed to plug the car in at home overnight maybe once a week. There's no need to visit Rapid chargers or Superchargers unless you doing a massive long trip and need to charge in the between. When I get a Model S, I doubt I'll ever have to see a Tesla super charger, it maybe free, but its much easier to just charge the car up at night - whist I'm asleep. Given the driving I do I wouldn't have to charge the car more than three times a month at the most.

I think we will always have disagreements on certain view points in life. I don't have a big enough pre-tax income to warranty needing an accountant - well not yet anyways, ask me in a few years . But even I can see how not paying tax on £120K is a proposition you don't want to ignore, regardless of your views on cars - especially given the end product is get to drive a P85D - which in it self costs next to nothing to run. I also made it pretty clear I didn't have the cash for P85D, and actually the most biggest sales pitch I got was when he gave me his card at the end of the test drive, and told me to just email him when I'm ready to order, and he'll sort out test drive in what ever Model S model configuration I wanted .

How do you think people end up been able to afford a 458 (footballer excluded) I know of people who own multiple homes but still keep a select number on a interest only-mortagage for 'tax efficiency'. Why does a company the size/success of Apple still have $45 billion worth of debt.... http://americasmarke...even-more-debt/ The higher your income the more tax you pay, and the more important it becomes to improve your 'tax efficiency'

^^ The Tesla guy who accompanied me on the test drive use to work for Ferrari, he was quite open about the fact alot of Tesla customers are buying the car over a other £100K+ cars for 'tax efficiency'. I'm no accountant, but it sounds like you can claim back any tax you have paid on profits from buissness against list price of the car...add in 5% BIK tax, essentially the car becomes a massive £120K tax reduction scheme. Which might explain to a degree most buyers are going for the £80K+ models rather than the cheaper base models. I'm pretty sure there will be many who have good enough accountants to mean they are essentially driving a P85D for the same cost of what I'm paying on the Leaf .

If your doing 500 miles every 24 hrs, over working year that's 117,000 miles which is around £14k in fuel costs. Yes you have to wait 20-30 minutes for a recharges every 200 miles + but supercharging is Free, even if you pay for charging at home 117k will cost £4k, add in 5% BIK tax and a Model S will save you a fair bit on your travelling costs. So taking slightly longer to refuel and saving £10K+ a year, I know which I'll choose, don't forget the unlimited millage warranty on the Tesla

^^ Tesla have started an official pre-owned program in the UK. All the cars have a 4 year warranty (no servicing required to keep the warrant valid), and the remaining, 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty on the battery pack. Sadly only 4 cars on it at the moment, and the cheapest still £60K!!! http://www.teslamoto...models/preowned A new roadster is coming, but till 2020, don't expect it to be cheap though - Current 4-5 year old roadster are still going for £50K. http://www.autocar.c...ter-launch-2019 Infiniti has apparently restarted developing an EV, aiming for 200 miles of range - No idea if thats the realistic EPA rating or the pointless NEDC rating, which puts the current Leaf at 120 miles, when in reality its more like 80-90 miles. Charging just isn't an issue with the Model S, I've had no problems with my Leaf and that has 30% the range of the Model S.

Your right beauty is a very subjective view. The best looking large saloon on the market in my view is the Quattroporte, the Model S has more than a passing resemblance, which in my book is not a bad thing. It’s 100% better looking than my old BMW 3 series As for the wait, it’s no that long….Some on here is waiting longer for a Ford In-anycase in the last 12 months Tesla have given the base-spec car more power, longer range, more gadgets standard, and introduced 4 WD - for only a minimal increase in price. I’ll be amazed if the MY17 Model S ends up running the same feature/spec as the the current MY15 cars. The rumours on the Tesla forums are full LED head lights, another 5-10% increase in battery size, and a mild face-lift is due in the next 12 months. I’m not going to get into another debate into EV charging versus normal cars. The fact is I’ve done over 3000 miles in my Leaf since May with not issues despite the Leaf having a range of less than 100 miles. A Model S with 250 miles of real life range is more than enough for 99.9% of my driving needs. For the other 0.1% I’ll use my wifes Lexus.

So I finally gave in and test drove a Tesla Model S yesterday... The Model I wanted to drive was either the 70D (240 mile range and 329bhp, AWD) or a 85S - 265 mile range, 370bhp, RWD. As these are the models I'm likely to buy. But the only one they had free was a P85D - The one with 'insane' mode and a 0-60 time to rival super cars. So here are my thoughts: 1 - Day to day use: The Tesla is no better or worse than the Leaf for general day to day commuting. They are both silent, refined and do what I expect an EV to do. Boths are leagues better than any ICE powered machine for commuting, going to the shops etc. 2 - Performance: From the a standing start the P85D is stupidly quick, I couldn't help but laugh out loud the first time I nailed the throttle from 0. BUT at speeds of >70mph it pulls no harder than my old 335i with the engine map turned up to 420bhp. Only difference been how it's delivers that power - no wheel spin, no drama, it just goes. I think this is because of the AWD and the very very clever TC system. I'm told the RWD version is more 'playful' but I'll have to wait to try one. 3 - Battery range: This was actually the biggest selling point of Model S. When driven in a normal fashion it has a range of over 250 miles. That's only marginally less than my old 335i with a full tank of fuel. Only difference been, a full tank in the 335i was £80 a pop versus <£10 on the Model S. Overall: I'm now 100% sure I'll be replacing the Leaf with a Model S come 2017 when my Leaf contract goes. But on the performance side of things, I don't think a P85D is worth £30K over a 70D. I need to drive the 70D, but 0-60 burn outs aren't what I'm buying a car to do. The main job of the car is go get me and my family from A to B, and allow me to have some fun if needed to. In that regard I have a feeling a £55K 70D will be just as good. If your after track day fun, the Model S isn't going to do it for you. It's acceleration is just TOO GOOD. I cannot emphasis enough just how easy it is to pick up speed in this thing. You don't need to worry about revs, gears, lag or even slippage. You just plant your foot and it goes, I suspect most people's grandmothers will be able to launch the Model S quicker from the line than even F1 drivers in any convental car - Which I suspect for people who love gears, clutches, heel-toeing will not see this as 'progress'. We are all after different things in a car and I appreciate its not for everyone but for ME, as a day to day car for the real world with decent poke, it's nearly perfect. The fact the car has the highest crash safety rating ever tested is more important feature than even a sub 3 second 0-60 time when I consider my family will be in the car quite often. Sadly I have to wait till my Leaf PCP deal expires before I can order the car. My wife has already picked the colour and options - 70D/85S in Black, 19inch wheels, standard coil suspension, upgraded seats, panoramic roof. Roll on Xmas 2016 **OK I just found out the test cars are limited to a set speed, this explains what doing 50-60mph + pulls the P85D wasn't as strong as I expected. Doesn't change my views, cannot afford a P85D anyways.**

Some of you guys sound like 80 year old grumpy old men who you see polishing the cars they've had since the 1960s etc

Do you mean September 2016!! So in 12 months time.....Gosh that is a wait.....Though that's still quicker than how long it's going to take for me to get into my next car