Dynamic Turtle

And from personal experience finding a "well maintained" one is nigh on impossible it seems. They have literally all been ragged to within an inch of their lives. Ditto the Z3M sadly.

The colour of your socks affects your insurance premium things days. It really is a broken system.

Top speed is 140mph with a nervous girlfriend in the passenger seat... I was bricking it too

I'll take the badges....

I had Abbey do a "fast road" geometry reset after the new ARBs were fitted The Bilsteins might be a worthwhile compromise and I'm going to wait back for that user's impressions once he's put a few thousand miles on them - very little info on them (even on the US forums). On the upside if the don't work out I can't imagine losing much on a resale.

Other issues I had to face were budget (COs were £800 more), conflicting advice about what to do first (no no coils will make the ride too stiff!), ramp time (it's my only car) and a few other practicalities I won't bore you with. I did not anticipate this being a one-shot solution but it was all I could afford at the time. I may change back to OEM or add other bits and pieces - dampers/coils/bushes etc over time depending on what I feel is necessary. Is this an arbitrary and unscientific exercise? Absolutely. But I'm a complete noob and not ashamed to make mistakes and deliver sweeping generalisations about an extremely complex engineering conundrum on a "public" forum.

Thats my point though, compared to what? Do you think they make more or less difference to turn in than coilovers, or even changing tyre pressures? What about if you were running higher rebound on the dampers, or changed the damper body for different droop? Have you considered whether changing your rollcentres by putting new knuckles on would make a difference? I didnt want to come across as an expert, because Im not, but on my last car I ran 5 different types of coilies, 2 sets of springs and shocks, 5 different ARB combinations, 4 diffs, literally innumerate tyres running every variation or pressures, 4 or 5 different alignment settings and used it for commuting to work and back, trackdays and drifting in anything up to 4th gear. You want to know the performances differences between HKS Hipermax and Tein Flex coilovers? No problem. You want to know whether a 1.5 way or 2 way diff would suit your driving style? Easy. Tell you about the difference driving a 200SX on 12/10, 10/8, 8/6, 6/4 spring rates? Ive done it. Drifting on the same? Probably the same answer. Its easy to say something makes a big difference, its a lot more difficult to quantify that relative to other options if you havent been there and done it, for instance your drifty back end is unlikely to be anything to do with the ARB's, I can also tell you that a degree of toe out will probabkly resolve the problem, assuming its not mega shagged bushes that are causing it. Putting harder ARBs on 1500KG of car thats suspended on blancmange is not the way to go IMO. I was merely stating that compared to the setup I was running prior to adding the ARBs, the handling had subsequently changed in the stated fashion. I didn't provide any context to help others quantify the magnitude of the change - I obviously can't do that. What I can say, is that I didn't like the change as it pushed the car too far to the extreme of what I was initially looking for. Arguably the only institutions with the means to perform the kind of in-depth testing you describe are manufacturers and motorsport teams, and certainly beyond the means of this humble turtle. I came to the forum with a question - can I improve some subjective handling deficiencies within a specific budget? I was given some options and not one person said a universal solution would be achievable for anything like £500 and I accepted that. I'm not looking to turn the Zed into an Evora in the handling stakes, I just wanted a little more of X and slightly less of Y. The experiment failed, hence why I'm seeking additional counsel, which may or may not result in success! No harm in trying ;-) DT

My advice is still that ARB's arent going to make a lot of difference as the Zed doesnt roll much to start with, its problem is that its too soft and too heavy so damping therefore has to be the first thing you look at. Experience also tells me that with the right coils and the right setup bumpy roads are just as easy to smash down at speed as on shocks and springs, and a lot easier than with the OE cheese string suspension as well. I agree with this, but my view (not having experience of different 350Z set-ups) is that this could be accomplished by a good set of dampers (such as the previous mention Bilstein B6 or B8, which are set-up / valved to work with standard or lowered spring respectively) rather than coilovers for a road car. Dynamic Turtle sounds like he will use his car partly on track, so may make use of the flexibility offered by adjustable dampers. I haven't fitted my Eibach ARB's as yet, so can't comment on them, but I feel there is definately room for improvement with respect to roll-resistance. Whether this roll resistance is matched by the damper performance on 50k mile dampers is another matter! If not, they will be up far sale soon Of course going too stiff on ARB's withut commensurate upgrades has negatives just as stiff springs and poor damping performance does. I believe someone was getting the bilsteins and will follow his progress with interest. As for using the car on track, yes, but like many others this accounts for about 1% of the car's total mileage (but 50% of the running costs, haha) and is therefore of very marginal importance. I just want a good setup for "fast road" use, as much the term makes me cringe...

docwra I can very much confirm that "toyt arbs" make a huge difference to the handling. In my case, it's made the zed ridiculously tail-happy which is great for shorts blasts in clement conditions (and on track) but was exhausting on a 500 mile road trip last week. A better, more confident driver might relish the challenge and being on edge all the time, but following two bad crashes in the past two months, I should be forgiven for having turned a little ginger. I'll keep experimenting and am not looking to create a weapon, just subtle improvements that keep me interested in the car (over a far more costly option of buying another one). DT

Incidentally now that I'm looking at that photo, do those rear drop links look 2 years old to you? They seem awfully rusted... Then again the eibach rear camber arms are only 3 months old and look 3 years old lol.

Well I had a quick look at the ARB settings today while replacing my pads and can see that the rear bar has been put on the middle of three stiffness settings (only two settings on the front bar). also, I noticed that the nearside ARB has an extra link attached to it (photo attached) which the offside doesn't have. Anyone know why it's there? Still haven't gotten around to reducing the rear PSI but will do it tomorrow. I'm a little reticent to do this because iI was under the impression that lower PSI doesn't necessarily increase traction? Re coilovers/ARBs there doesn't seem to be a concrete consensus and as I said, we have to factor in the reality that for those of us without access to a ramp and/or manskills, the CO route is a lot more expensive (Abbey quoted £450 for ARBs + fitting and £1250 for BC CO + fitting) I chose the Whiteline ARBs simply because they were £80 cheaper than the Eibachs. £300 odd quid is still a lot for two bits of bent steel. Thanks again for all the help. You guys wock.

I will try adjusting the tyre psi first but i'll have to get a garage to modify the stiffness of the ARBs (incidentally I didn't realise they had different stiffness settings - thought that's why people buy adjustable droplinks? yes I am a noob...) noted re road cambers although tbh the rear feels drifty and disconnected pretty much all of the time, and subjectively worse when the tyres are hot.

Time for an update: I've run another 1500 odd miles (including 25 aggressive laps around snetterton) into the tyres and ARBs and am not sure I like the new setup after all. Sometimes the back-end feels very drifty, which was fun at first but on longs drives can become quite tiring - it feels like the rear could step out too willingly around bends, even at modest speeds. The car was amazing around Snetterton but that's on racing tarmac rather than road tarmac, which may have made the difference re grip levels? FWIW I did wipeout around one bend but I was really pressing-on and being very heavy on the throttle too early out of the corner. On the road, the car feels more planted when the tyres are cold (FWIW I've been running the MPSS at 35PSI all around) which seems a bit strange but there you go... All of which are subjective/unscientific observations of course but I've had the car 3 years and driven 18k miles in it. As for solutions, what would members recommend? Remove the Whitelines and put the OEM ARBs back on - I can live with the body roll if I get some compliance and grip back Adjust the geo settings again? Add the eibach adjustable links and compensate accordingly? Add different coils/dampers (might this serve to make the ride stiffer and even more drifty? Not keen on the expense either) Perhaps contact Whiteline and see what they say re optimum settings? I appreciate suspension and geometry is an extremely complex area but I would like to lock this issue down once and for all. Cheers, DT

How thick is the plenum spacer?

Also very interested to hear how you get on with these. I considered BC coilovers but was quoted rather a lot to have them fitted so addressed the body roll issue first. I had Whiteline ARBs fitted about 1000 miles ago (using polybushed OEM links) and they've improved turn-in at the expense of rear-end traction. It can get floaty at the back if you're not careful and the car handles a bit like an old 911 now. It means that I can get tail-happy thrills at lower speeds with TCS on, but the corollary is that confidence at taking higher speed bends is somewhat diminished. Also please let us know if you manages to source them at a competitive price :-)

Yep I had a full geo afterwards and eibach rear camber arms to replace the OEM arms. I should state however, that I'm running OEM ARB drop links (albeit with poly bushes all around) so I think the adjustability options are somewhat limited. I didn't fancy paying an extra £200 for the eibach jobbies...

OK so I thought I'd post an update now that the car is back on the road, a month after the crash. Big thanks to the MSV / Palmer team at Snetterton who were brilliant and Keith at Breckland Bodytech in Attleborough who did a slow but great job in the circumstances. Costs (approx but inc vat): Radiator shroud £120 (nissan oem price!). Breaker/used stuff: front bumper £80, misc bits of plastic (grommets, brackets, plates etc) £250, full airbag/belts/srs loom £320 Labour (inc reshape and spray of bonnet and wings, airbag refits + loads of other stuff) £1400 Miserable 1 litre fiesta hire car for 28 days: £365 Misc train tickets: £200 So roughly £2750 out of pocket, not including a gigantic amount of time and hassle to get everything sorted and the costs of the ill-fated trackday itself (£300). Insurance would have been around £80 premium with an £800 excess so I would strongly advise anyone going on track to sort this out. I had a fairly minor impact (30mph ish,) and was very lucky not to bend the chassis or cause any drivetrain damage. As for the car, following a 1-month idle period it was very rough on start-up. However it markedly improved after a 200 mile test drive around norfolk's finest bendy bits and now she's 98% there. The power steering hydraulics have a little bit of air so the steering is slightly heavier than normal (but at least it's consistently heavy rather than taking in more air). the gearbox oils also feel more viscous and probably needs replacing - it took noticeably longer for it to loosen up than usual. Oil pressure and batt voltages have thankfully normalised as these were elevated before. Engine temp was rocksteady and nominal as before. I had Abbey fit some Whiteline ARBs a couple of weeks before the trackday and am not sure I like the additional stiffness. Yes the turn-in is pointier and there's less body roll, but it has come with too much loss of traction and floatiness from the rear end. The car handles like an 80s 911 now and it's frankly, rather scary. I don't like bricking myself every time I take a roundabout at 30mph and feel the backend step out (and this is with TCS engaged). I should also point out that it's running grippy new MPSS (which are great but let's see how long they last compared to the 15k mile RE050s). I'm not sure I'll keep the ARBs because it's just too unnerving and after several failed attempts at drifting I've finally realised that I'm not Vincent Diesel. And let me just re-iterate that saving the car was the right thing to do, regardless of cost (and it still needs more cosmetic work on the alloys and tesco dings!). We shouldn't be breaking these future classics up at the pace we currently are because they'll be sorely missed when they're gone. DT

OK all items received and the car is back on the road and looking like new, thanks for all the help.

Probably worse in some parts of rural scotland too - is it fair for a court to expect hebridians to attend? By satellite uplink perhaps? If the court is happy putting me up in the Dorchester for a couple of weeks i could handle it...

We had a merchant navy 10 years ago? Did I miss some kind of war in the english channel? Did Belgium try to seize Jersey?

is there a distance limit? I used to live in london when I got a summons and now live 65 miles away. Surely that has to be a decent enough reason to be excused? would be a nightmare 3 hour commute each way...

It's also worth poingting out that we should relish cars like these while we still have them. N/A FR manual transmission V8 coupes will all but disappear over the next few years, with AMG and Aston the next flies to drop...

No trousers? Doesn't the stingray have something like 450lbft of torque?!

I have to say the stingray looks better in the pics and on video than the flesh - up close the plastic bodywork and alloys look cheap. Not a dealbreaker for many I'm sure but just don't expect german or even japanese levels of workmanship here. Still a handsome looking car though and I'd quite happily pootle around in one.

Eek, someone's going to get a very sweet deal there...