Adrian@TORQEN

All PMs replied!

"THE peevishness of the campaigning has obscured the importance of what is at stake. A vote to quit the European Union on June 23rd, which polls say is a growing possibility, would do grave and lasting harm to the politics and economy of Britain. The loss of one of the EU’s biggest members would gouge a deep wound in the rest of Europe. And, with the likes of Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen fuelling economic nationalism and xenophobia, it would mark a defeat for the liberal order that has underpinned the West’s prosperity. The liberal Leavers are peddling an illusion. On contact with the reality of Brexit, their plans will fall apart. If Britain leaves the EU, it is likely to end up poorer, less open and less innovative. Far from reclaiming its global outlook, it will become less influential and more parochial. And without Britain, all of Europe would be worse off." http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21700637-vote-leave-european-union-would-diminish-both-britain-and-europe-divided-we-fall

EU referendum has gone virtually unmentioned and it is probably the most crucial detail: Parliament doesn't actually have to bring Britain out of the EU if the public votes for it. That is because the result of June 23 referendum on Britain's EU membership is not legally binding. Instead, it is merely advisory, and, in theory, could be totally ignored by UK government. This incredible detail is explained in a new blog post by Financial Times columnist and legal expert David Allen Green. Green says that no legal provision was included in the EU referendum legislation that requires UK Parliament to act in accordance with the outcome of the referendum. This is unlike the last referendum held across Britain, the Alternative Vote referendum held in 2011, where the outcome had a legal trigger and had to be acted on by the government of the time. Instead, what will happen next if the public votes for a Brexit will be purely a matter of parliamentary politics. The government could decide to put the matter to parliament and then hope to win the vote, Green says. In the scenario of Britain's EU membership being put to a Westminster vote, barring no dramatic change in allegiances, it is likely that MPs would vote to keep the country in the 28-nation bloc. This is because the vast majority of the 650 MPs identify as Europhiles and would likely support a motion position to protect Britain's place in the EU. http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-brexit-2016-6

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/heres-what-happens-in-the-72-hours-after-britain-votes-to-leave/

Talking about scaremongering... "New flyer through the door from Brexit campaign. Thought I'd look into this claim. The Rio-Antirrio bridge cost 630m euro, 47% funded by a loan from the European Investment Bank (source: the economist). The same bank is funding £280m for expansion of facilities at UCL, £700m funding for the Thames Tideway Tunnel, and £360m funding towards the smart meter roll out by British Gas. This is all part of £16b investment in British projects over the last 3 years (crossrail, Manchester metrolink etc.) (source: gov.uk, Wikipedia). Potholes annoy the hell out of me too, but this flyer is pure propaganda, the EIB funds projects in the UK just as well as other countries." (from Facebook - Nick Roesen)

http://www.thenational.scot/news/ukip-leave-poster-accidentally-mimics-nazi-propaganda.18868 Really?

Oh, and Gareth, don't waste your time finding another garage, just drop the car to Jez, I'll drop the block there and let them work some magic on your car. Pretty sure Rich will be helping you with photos while the work is in progress, to keep your build thread updated

Stillen used to suck, but they finally came back to their sense not very long ago Good as gold now, really nice chaps.

"The Europe we need to embrace next Thursday is the Europe of the shared battle against left-wing and right-wing fascism; of the reformation; of the renaissance; of the enlightenment; of mass secularism; of liberal democracy. If we really want to protect the values that we in Britain claim to treasure, then we will best do so within a close-knit European family. That’s why I, a long-standing Eurosceptic, will be voting to remain." http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eurosceptic-eu-referendum-qatar-globalisation-vote-remain-a7085221.html

""Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’ We all know what “getting our country back†means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.†It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?†Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity. We all know what “getting our country back†means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday†with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again. The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity. And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.†This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed. All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots. There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them. The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too farâ€. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits. Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side. Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?†When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?†Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place. Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’ You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.†This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom. Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated. The first “X†I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation. There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting. The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge. Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it? I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aa-gill-argues-the-case-against-brexit-kmnp83zrt

:lol: "A Brexit survival guide: freeze your cheese and holiday in Albania A land without Polish plumbers, the end of the Calais booze trip and no more need to learn tricky foreign languages … Welcome to post-EU Britain ... Enjoy the good old British banger For too long, eurocrats have been messing with our sausages, haven’t they? Yes, they have. The Sun once complained that those damned continentals interfered with our freeborn British practice of allowing a certain amount of fat to count as meat in sausages. No more. Let rampant colon cancer and type 2 diabetes be the expressions of Britain’s newly independent spirit. ... Forget farming, start fishing You’re a farmer whose business model has been predicated on receiving billions in EU agricultural subsidies while you lean on gates chewing grass and looking into the middle distance. It’s time to retrain. Go to your library and borrow a singalong sea shanty CD. That’ll be your first step in your new career. If the UK takes control of its waters and starts stopping factory ships from the continent depleting fish stocks, you see, fishing could well become a lucrative profession. ... Learn the joy of waiting Remember those happy days when you strolled through EU airports past a long queue of loser non-EU citizens waiting for immigration officials to give them cavity searches and/or unpleasant frownings? Thanks to Brexit, you’ll be in that queue soon. What to do? Catch up on your reading while you wait. What seem to be ludicrously big novels – Hanya Yanagihara’s A Little Life, Donna Tartt’s The Goldfinch, Elena Ferrante’s quartet, that sextet of autobiographical novels by that Norwegian – will be perfect company while you wait for hours to be patronised by snooty French immigration officials. ... Fall in love with the good old British seaside Remember when you used to go to that lovely sun-drenched island in some blissful EU country? Those days are over. Get used to the sand in your eyes, the chip fat in your hair, getting dive bombed by gulls, hypothermia if you put a toe in the sea, and four hours of stationary traffic on the M6 on the way home." http://gu.com/p/4y46k/fb

Most likely they won't match the red from Mishimoto ones...

Let me reply to this before Ekona does. Eh.

It's not the case buddy, I don't trade anymore, don't worry you're safe, independent and in control. You don't have to sell our country.

More than £30 billion has been wiped off the FTSE 100 Index as city fears grow over a potential Brexit. The EU referendum takes place next Thursday, but fears of the eventual outcome is being felt globally. Recent opinion polls on the referendum put the Leave campaign in the lead, while the Sun newspaper came out in favour of Brexit on Tuesday. The latest plunge means more than £70 billion has been lost from the index since the start of the week. http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-14/brexit-fears-wipe-30-billion-off-the-ftse-100/

Brexit is a bloody stupid idea, if you’re not going to read past this first introductory paragraph, that pretty much sums up my views on the subject. What’s worrying is that like most stupid ideas (Donald Trump, war, Nickelback), there seem to be lots of people willing to get behind it. The more polling data I look at, the more terrified I become that Britain might actually be about to do the dumbest thing we possibly could as a country. Seeing the way the debate is heading I figured, ‘why don’t I chime in with my opinions on the subject?’ Just Like Nigel Farage, I have no qualifications in Politics, Economics or Sociology; if he can act as a geyser of oral excrement, why not I? I should probably warn you that I’d describe my writing style as ‘man drunk in Weatherspoons at 11am telling you why he should be the England manager’, which is ironic because Tim Martin the founder and chairman of Spoons is actually a strong advocate of Brexit. Between me and you, I have a suspicion that he just wants the whole of Britain to be as depressing as The Plough and Harrow in Ravenscourt Park, god that’s a crap pub, but anyway I digress. The economy At times it seems that the entire economic discourse between Leave and Remain, has degenerated in to a tiring game of whiffle-waffle tennis. I can understand why people find it difficult to get an informed opinion when almost all the debate ends up in both sides shouting liar liar pants on fire (not just a popular children’s rhyme, but also a direct quote from Boris Johnson’s last mayoral election campaign, strong choice of leader there Brexiteers*). This isn’t helped by the fact that in reality most economic ‘experts’ are just slightly better paid and dressed village shamans, trying to predict the future of the economy through goat entrails. Let us not forget that almost no one (Vince Cable aside, who by the way is firmly in the Remain camp), saw the 2008 crash coming. If something as mind bogglingly complicated at the economy was as easy to predict as both sides pretend, then those dour faced men in suits would be too busy spending the trillions they’d made on the stock market fighting in their robot unicorn league, to have time to do interviews for the BBC or This Morning. *What’s the Remain version of Brexiteer? Is it Bremainateer? Bremusketeer? So how do we find a way of gauging the actual economic impact Brexit would have? Well for all of its many faults, one thing that you can’t argue with is the global market. The global market doesn’t give a toss about principles, patriotism or refugees, it is by its very nature a capitalist entity; it is only interested in making money. So what does the global market think of the idea of Brexit? It thinks it will be an utter self-induced cluster ****. Straight after Boris Johnson signed up to the Leave campaign, the pound slumped to its lowest point since March 2009. Can we put that in perspective please? Apart from the immediate aftermath of the worst economic crash since the great depression, the pound hasn’t done worse than it is currently doing because we are talking about leaving the EU. Can you even begin to contemplate the nose dive that the pound’s value would embark upon if we actually did it? The most troubling thing is that this actually has the potential to be worse than 2008 because it wouldn’t be a global crash, it would be specifically targeted against Britain. The 2008 crash was brutal but it hit everyone pretty much equally, we all had to rebuild our economies from a similar base of downturn. In comparison this would be a softcore porn kind of crash; one where we are only screwing ourselves. At a time when all of the world’s major economies are starting to grow and flourish again, we could easily be going through a second recession. Now I know that arguments similar to this have been presented to the Leave campaign and they’ve responded by calling it alarmist nonsense. A point of linguistic semantics that I would like to indulge in: calling something alarming when it is so, doesn’t prove that thing to be un-alarming and thus win you an argument. Johnson has shown through his impressively inappropriate H-bomb dropping, that he loves a good WW2 metaphor, so here’s one for his Brexit campaign: If you are in the trenches and someone screams ‘incoming!’ The correct response is to take heed and duck. If you stand up and go ‘I declare that alarmist nonsense’, you are, quite rightly through Darwinism, going to get your bloody head blown off. Anyway, after the declaration of alarmist nonsense has been made, the average Brexit supporter tends to counter by accepting that there will be a negative short term effect on the economy, but arguing we’ll quickly strike new lucrative trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world, and thus reap the rewards long term (at roughly a dozen points during this argument they’ll probably quote the fact that Britain’s economy is the 5th largest in the world). There are 3 main assumptions about Britain this argument relies upon that just aren’t real: Speed: The notion that we will quickly strike up trade deals as easily as snapping our fingers, is so naive, and based on so many romantic fantasies about Western governments, that it is genuinely pathetic. The idea that Britain and the EU are suddenly these powerhouses of bureaucratic efficiency that can thrash out a trade deal in a couple of weeks is laughable. Britain in particular loves waffle, we love legislation and it will take years and years to sort out anything because, well, Britain. We’re good at 5 things in Britain Queuing Shouting get your rat out whilst on holiday Unnecessary bureaucracy Stereotypes Ironic lists The worst thing is that even if we did suddenly become a nation of cut-throat trade deal making aficionados, it wouldn’t matter; the process of leaving the EU takes 2 years. That’s two years that the pound will continue to be violated on the global market, two years where no business is willing to invest or make a deal because they want to wait and see how the Brexit circus turns out. I will take any odds, that if we do choose to leave, we will not be the 5th largest economy in the world by the time we actually make it out of the EU, 2 years down the line. Trade deals: The idea that the EU will still trade with us because they can’t afford not to is just deluded. Firstly can we just take a moment to think about how utterly grim that negotiation table is going to be. Politicians are as petty as normal people (the French especially so), and will be peeved that we’ve opted out of their secret handshake club. If you **** in the corner of someone’s dining room and then sit down to have supper, the conversation is going to be understandably tense (believe me). The real problem is that even if we accept the Brexit campaign’s assertion that the remaining EU countries will be entirely motivated by economic greed, that will actually work against us because the playing field isn’t as narrow in scale as a simple question of trade between the EU and Britain. If we leave the EU and then manage to negotiate a better deal for ourselves out of it than we had in it, the EU will unravel. No country is going to stay in the organisation if we have just proven you can sack the whole thing off without anything but positive consequences. The EU member states (France and Germany especially) know this, and will be out to punish us, they will want nothing more than to watch us have 3 years where we trash our economy, only to come crawling back with our tail between our legs. They will want us to serve as an example of the damaging stupidity leaving the EU entails, so they can quell the Right Wing uprising that is currently gaining traction across all of Europe. The EU will accept the short term negative impact of decreased trade with Britain in exchange for the long term benefit of continuing to exist as the EU. The idea that they will trade with us because they can’t afford not to is actually the wrong way round; they will refuse to trade with us because they know what the ramifications will be if they do: no more EU. And by the way the argument that we will just replace our trade from the EU with trade from the US, China and other markets is again built upon a number of fundamentally flawed assumptions. Despite what the Brexit campaign says, being in the EU doesn’t block trade deals with non-EU members. We have spent lots of time and money trying to secure trade deals with every country across the world that would make us money, indeed we have had many successes in this area. Being outside the EU doesn’t mean that suddenly a hundred trade deals will pop up that we otherwise couldn’t have taken. We know the major competitors of the global market and if we haven’t succeeded in securing trade deals with them in the EU, we will not have much more success out of it. Indeed the trade deals we enter in to straight out of the EU will not be negotiated from a position of strength. Non-EU countries will know that we are desperate for trade, and will have far more power in determining the details of any deal struck than we do. Unity: Again the entire argument for this recovery presupposes a level of unity in Britain that just isn’t going to be there if we choose to leave. If you actually believe that David Cameron won’t resign as Prime Minister if he loses this referendum, then I am honestly impressed you’ve made it this far down my article, why don’t you close the shiny magic picture box and go back to colouring in. Cameron had drafted a resignation speech to deliver in the event of Scotland leaving the UK, something that, if he was really being honest with himself, he probably didn’t give a @*!# about. There is no way Cameron will stick around if we opt out of the EU. You know who will replace him? That’s right, Boris Johnson. Boris. ****ing. Johnson. Boris Johnson doesn’t have a plan for Britain outside of the EU, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he knew that Brexit will harm us and just doesn’t care. Johnson has managed to cultivate a smoke screen of harmless buffoonery, hiding the reality that he is in fact a thoroughly harmful and nasty career politician who has voted with the Tory Right Wing for most of his career. Johnson doesn’t give a damn if he ends up as the leader of a pile of rubble, as long as he is the leader. Brexit won’t affect Johnson’s livelihood, he is rich now and he’ll be rich regardless of how our economy does, he is just a power hungry tory riding a wave of xenophobic populism for his own ends that has been brought on by the currently frightening socio-political climate of Europe. Now I want you to just take a moment to envisage the fractured political landscape that Boris Johnson will be taking the helm of. The Conservatives have constantly mocked Labour’s party division, but that will be nothing compared to their implosion after Brexit. The party will finally have to address the two different strands of itself: the shiny faced new era Camronites vs the nastier, more racist, UKIP leaning underbelly that has grown more and more venomous in recent years, due to its diminishing say in how the government tells poor people it’s their own fault for being poor. Regardless of your political preference, having the country’s government fractured and divided is only ever going to be a bad thing, especially when that government is going to be responsible for negotiating the most important political, economic and sociological change since WW2. The rest of the political landscape will not be looking much better either. Labour will still be going through the same internal struggle with itself, as the old school Blairites of New Labour continue to decry Corbyn and his merry band of ‘lefty loonies’ (which would be a great name for an alt rock band, #justsaying). Things actually get grimmer as we go up north (rule of life) to Scotland, with the SNP licking its lips at the prospect of Brexit. Here’s another bet I’ll take at any odds: if we do leave the EU, there will be another referendum in Scotland and this time they’ll vote to leave by a landslide. There’s a reason the SNP haven’t exactly waded in guns blazing to the debate. There’s a reason that current and past party members keep ‘leaking’ the idea that it would be in Scotland’s best interests for Britain to leave the EU, even though Scotland wants to be in the EU: a lot of the SNP want Scotland independent and we are about to hand it to them on a silver platter. At a time when Britain needs to pull together and be at its most unified, we will instead be a state of warring factions splintering off from one another. With Scotland breaking away from Britain and both of our major parties divided in two, we’re going to find it hard to agree on the colour of @*!#, let alone the minutia of political and economic reform. Finally, the introduction of Johnson as head of government, will exacerbate the problems I mentioned in the previous sections of Time and Trade deals. We will find ourselves in a position where both of the sides at the negotiation table can’t afford to blink, and that is only ever going to result in the discussions getting dragged out ad infinitum. In the same way that the EU can’t lose this game of chicken with Britain, Johnson can’t lose face in the deal he strikes with the EU. Having championed the Leave cause, he must come back with an agreement from the EU that is significantly better than what we have already, otherwise it will be career suicide. With the two parties at the negotiation table starting from such polar positions, and with neither being able to lose, there is no hope of a deal being struck quickly and very little chance of one being struck at all. Immigration After the wide spread criticism of their economic arguments, the ‘immigration problem’ has come to form the major foundation of much of the Leave campaign’s rhetoric. Let’s start with the Syrian crisis, why is it that we cared enough about these people to try and make them in to a democracy — via our usual route of teaming up with America and bombing the right to vote in to them — but not enough to try and help them when the assorted turds hit the fan? We were an instrumental part of turning Syria in to the war torn hell hole it is today with a short term and vague bombing program, and we should be instrumental in helping the people suffering for our cowboy approach to diplomacy. Even if you accept the idea that these people will make things harder for us economically, that we might have to pay more tax to support them, it is morally abhorrent to turn them away. Be clear about the statement you’re making about yourself and the statement we’re making as a country if we entirely shut down the borders to the Syrian refugees. What you’re saying is, ‘I’d rather allow people to die, people my country is responsible for putting in their current predicament, than pay more tax or spend more resources’. I pray that I’m not wrong, but I hope most people aren’t that callous, we can’t be that much a nation of cold hearted bastards can we? Obviously we can’t accept every refugee out there but that’s one of the main reasons the EU was set up: a network of aid across nations to deal with the huge amount of refugees post WW2 in a humanitarian way. The Brexit campaign love playing the patriotism card, but you would be turning your back on 70+ years of British values by voting to leave the EU, it was one of the crowning achievements of our grandparents generation and should be fought for vehemently. The reason Europe is such an amazing success story is because of the humanitarian and inclusionist philosophies we espoused to rebuild it after WW2. That’s what defeats extremism: economic stability, inclusionist principles and education. That might sound like trite bollocks, but let me put it to you this way: is the death cult of ISIS anymore mental than the death cult of the Nazis? No. Could you imagine France and Britain going to war with Germany this year? No. Because over 70 years of good work by the EU has made that unthinkable. Isolationism has never worked historically and it won’t work for us now. By the way you might be thinking ‘oh but he’s left out Turkey, they’re about to join the EU and they’re a melting pot of extremist Muslim ideologies who will sweep through our country in a flood of immigration’. I honestly refuse to even engage with the stupidity of the Turkey fear mongering. It’s hugely debatable whether they will gain EU membership, only 14% of the country own a passport and this ‘flood’ of immigration will be a trickle that we shouldn’t have ever worried about, just like Poland and every other 2nd world country that’s ever joined the EU and been front page news for the right wing media core owned by Rupert ‘I may well be the anti-christ’ Murdoch. Stop letting the Leave campaign lie to you, you’re better than that. Security So this is heavily tied up with immigration and is what a lot of people claim to be the reason they want to tighten the borders without it meaning they’re racist. It’s something the Brexit campaign loves using to stoke fear and xenophobia with (ironic that they call the Remain campaign ‘project fear’, when much of their argument boils down to ahhhhh! Someone with different skin, SHUN HIM!). I can understand why people are easily misled with respect to this issue, the world is a ****ing terrifying place right now. Would you like to know something that sucks? Terrorists are terrifying because they are almost impossible to stop. Yes we can do better than we have done so far, and no one is saying that we should be allowing immigration without stringent and intense screening, but there really is only so much you can do to stop people with a mantra of ‘We love death as you love life’. Do you know how many of the deluded extremists involved in the Belgian and Paris attacks (including Charlie Hebdo) had come to the countries involved disguised as immigrants? 2 out of 15. The rest, including the ring leaders and organisers, were all French or Belgium nationals. Obviously 2 out of 15 is enough to be a security concern and not something that should be taken lightly, but you’d be deluded to think that these attacks wouldn’t have occurred if Paris and Belgium had an absolute lock down on their respective borders. Short of turning your country in to a Big Brother-esque police state, where not only are you not allowing any outsiders in, but also constantly policing your own citizens every thought, you can’t make it impossible for terrorism to occur. There needs to be huge amounts of time and effort put in to making it as safe as possible to allow immigration in to our country, with background checks and interviews. It will be difficult and a serious headache, but the idea that the easier alternative is to leave the EU is just idiotic. Do you know what the vast 99.999999% of Syrian (and indeed all) refugees want to do? Get a job in a non war torn country, work their assess off and pay taxes. Pretty much every independent study done about immigration shows it as a positive effect economically, with immigrants paying more in than they take, especially in an ageing top heavy social demographic like ours. This idea of the lazy, benefit claiming immigrant is a xenophobic fantasy. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf So please for everyone’s sake, stop listening to the fear mongering of the right wing, it’s utter crap. The world is a scary place and they’re trying to manipulate that fear for their own political agenda, they want to turn your fear of terrorism in to a wrongly placed fear of everyone not from Britain. Stopping immigration will not help our security or economy, the argument they’re making is based on people’s ignorance. The economy and the country don’t function in the simplistic way the Leave campaign is presenting it to. Sovereignty This is by far the closest the Leave argument comes to having a point, but it is still ultimately twisted nonsense. The argument that we should leave the EU if it was constantly affecting our laws in a bad way is sound, but the EU doesn’t, so it isn’t. When you ask the Leave campaign to point to an area where they’ve had the evil EU intervene to the detriment of Britain, it gets awfully quiet. The EU bill of human rights for example (I know technically this is a mutually exclusive body to the EU, but it has been brought up a lot by both sides and I think that it will be next on the kill list, post-Brexit) is an almost incontestably good thing, something that we actually wrote by the way. I mean seriously how is Nigel Farage — and I would add that Theresa May and Cameron also need to **** right off in regard to this subject — allowed to talk about the ECHR being oppressive legislation and not get booed off stage? Have you actually read that document? It guarantees privacy, a right to a fair trial, freedom from torture, freedom of religion, freedom from discrimination etc. etc. One of the main things we’ve gotten antsy with the EU about, has been when its intervention has stopped us from deporting someone from our country as quickly as we want to. Are we really going to leave the EU so that we can violate more human rights? That last sentence, whilst flippant, is actually much more of a concern than you might realise due to the likely post-Brexit political climate. Choosing Brexit will result in a huge shift to the right in our country’s politics. It would mean that UKIP has suddenly become a credible political party, and that means you could well see a coalition government between the nasty right wing core that survives a Conservative Party meltdown, and UKIP. That honestly makes me want to cry; the most right wing elements of our country (minus the BNP), joining forces, with the power to tear up all of the EU legislation on human and workers rights as well as the ECHR. The only way Brexit would become a credibly good idea, is if Britain post-EU would have better laws and a better social structure outside of it than in. That won’t be the case, things will get worse. Let’s not forget how utterly grim unrestrained Thatcherite free market capitalism is, and how little it gives a crap about the lower class. I promise you that if Boris and Gove write up a new ‘British Bill of Rights’, the first things to go will be your right to privacy and the protection on unpaid overtime and maximum working hours. EU economic and political legislation are again, pretty ****ing tame, there are no sacrifice your firstborn clauses, if there was, countries wouldn’t be chomping at the bit to join the EU. The attempt to paint the EU as a corrupt den of bureaucratic thieves and rotten bankers might carry some clout, if our own country wasn’t such a more impressively corrupt den of bureaucratic thieves and rotten bankers. Does the EU favour corporations and ultimately is it money that talks loudest? Yes of course, but unfortunately that’s the way a capitalist world works. If you want to have a conversation about inherent political structure and if we should change it, then believe me I am your man for that discourse I dig that @*!# hugely, but leaving the EU won’t change anything, it will make things worse. The post-Brexit legislation we lay down will be done by a heavily right-wing leaning government, who want fewer workers rights and more freedom for corporations, because they honestly believe that helping the 1% get richer is the real aim of countries. People should be laughing in Boris Johnson and Michael Gove’s faces when they pretend the laws and legislation they will pass post-Brexit will benefit anyone but the ruling classes. Allies Now listen, I know it might seem a little bit hypocritical for me to talk about allies when Cameron and Osborne are on the Remain side, but Jesus if you’re supporting Brexit, can you please take a moment to look at who you’re standing with. Here’s a little reversal of a sentence structure that is ironically most often used by racists: I’m not saying that everyone who votes Leave is racist, but everyone who’s a racist will be voting Leave. I am so sick of people pretending that the racism that keeps popping up in the Leave campaign, is the work of a few bad apples and doesn’t reflect on the movement as a whole. The movement was started by Nigel Farage. This is the man who shouted angrily at Mandelson to “stop rubbing our noses in diversityâ€. What does that mean, other than I want to have my nose rubbed in uniformity and by uniformity I mean white people? Can the media please start calling a spade a spade and a racist little @*!# a racist little @*!#. Nigel Farage and his party are a xenophobic movement of assholery and that’s who you’re lining up with if you think Brexit is a good idea. You’re saying I think that the party who employs MEP’s that refer to Africa as bongo bongo land, are the right people to get behind when it comes to our sociopolitical future. Well it’s not just UKIP gunning for Brexit I hear you say, what about Boris Johnson, he’s not an elitist racist. Really? He suggested that Obama was only in support of Remain because of his dislike of Britain due to his Kenyan heritage. Are you kidding me? Yea, Obama leader of the most racially prejudice first world country, the man who gets regular death threats and insults on major American news channels because of the colour of his skin, can’t raise himself above racial grievances from the colonial era. He thought he’d just fly over to Britain for shits and giggles, because he wants us to make bad choices due to his spear waving, bone through the nose, tribal dancing heritage, bloody Kenyan savage. Oh but don’t worry, Boris Johnson can sing German so he couldn’t possibly be racist. Boris Johnson should have been disqualified from all further political discourse after that statement, but as ever he got given a free pass because he’s just such a lovable un-PC little scamp. It’s like meeting one of your friends old school mates who thinks it’s hilarious to dip his genitals in your pint when you’ve gone to the loo, and who your mate explains, ‘is just like that’. What, like an absolute prick? Well don’t worry Brexiteers, there are more respected world leaders waiting to make cameos in the debate: Donald Trump, the man who wants to ban Muslims, build a wall to stop Mexicans and punish women for having abortions, thinks Brexit is a good idea. So does Vladimir Putin, the man who has made it illegal to be gay in public, and of course only has Britain’s best interests at heart. He couldn’t possibly be hoping to prise us away from the EU and NATO community so we’ll develop closer economic and political ties with Russia, I’m sure that’ll end well. What you’re saying when you join the Brexit camp is, ‘well I think those people are wrong about their abhorrent beliefs in certain areas, but when it comes to Brexit, they’ve hit the nail on the head.’ Is it not more likely that they’re just ass holes? When I was at university I was considering joining the rugby team, I went out on a night out with the team and during the evening one of the lads went “oi look at that girlâ€, I said “yea she’s beautifulâ€, and he went “watch thisâ€, pi**ed in a cup and threw it at her. I didn’t join the rugby team because they were serial offending bell ends. That’s the team you’re on if you go Brexit, Team Racist **** Throwing. So please, for the love of Jehova vote Remain. Get your mum, dad, sister, brother, cat and goldfish to vote Remain. Scream it from the rooftops, the only accurate thing Brexit has done is call the Remain campaign ‘Project Fear’, spot on, you should be ****ing terrified. https://medium.com/@williamgadsbypeet/project-fear-is-a-fitting-name-you-should-be-****ing-terrified-5c93f1b5ef2f

Just had this from CityIndex: ====== Ahead of an expected increase in market volatility around the UK’s EU referendum on the 23rd of June, 2016 we’re writing to let you know about changes that will affect your account. Changes to our margins Our margin requirements will change temporarily to reflect the increased market uncertainty around the referendum. From the 19th June, 2016 these changes will include: GBP related currency pairs and UK Indices will move to 3% base margin as a minimum EUR related currency pairs and European and US Indices will move to 1% base rate margin as a minimum UK 100 Equities will move to 8% base rate margin. ======= If Britain leaves EU is going to be a disaster on the stock exchange, FTSE companies will have serious value wiped off the market, GBP vs any currency will simply dive, I'm predicting 1GBP = 1 USD... Lots of prices will go up for anything imported.

"So the anti-Europe cave is claustrophobic. It is also being refilled (for we have been here before) with futile arrogance, making it obligatory not merely to criticise Brussels but abominate the Germans, laugh about the French, find nothing good to say about another European country, lest this betray our beleaguered sense of Britishness. A smart-ass headline writer in the Sun can get attention when the BBC finds an item of punning xenophobia so funny as to be worth a mention in the news. At the heart of this is an impenetrable contradiction in the anti-Europe British mind. It cannot decide between terror and disdain. Britain is apparently so great, as well as so different, a place that she can afford to do without her continental hinterland. But she is so puny, so endangered, so destined to lose every argument with the continentals, that she must fear for her identity if and when she makes the final commitment to belong among them. Studying the movements of sceptic thought, I see in their inability to provide a clear answer on this fundamental point a mirror of the vacillations, pro- and anti-Europe, that mark the personal histories of so many of the characters in the story. Either way, the conclusion points in the anti-Europe direction." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/hugo-young-euro-referendum-archive-piece-1999

Neil Warwick, a leading EU and competition lawyer at Newcastle based Square One Law is encouraging participation in the EU Referendum from an informed position by providing a factual overview of the legal process that will commence in the event of a leave outcome. Neil has produced a simple guide showing the four possible legal outcomes in the event that the vote is to leave the EU. He developed the guide as an at-a-glance reference for business people in response to the lack of objective and factual analysis available to the public. Neil said: “Which ever way people decide to vote on 23 June, they need to be able to easily understand the implications of their decision. I have been struck by how overly complicated and negative the majority of the press coverage has been about this crucial vote and by creating a straight forward guide I hope that businesses will be able to chart the flow of the legal processes we would have to enter into. “It is important to recognise in three of the four scenarios the UK would still be subject to EU law and free movement of people, but crucially would no longer have any input into the formation of new EU laws. “It is also worth noting that the negotiations to leave the EU would take a minimum of two years from the point the Article 50 notice is served, but any new arrangement could take at least ten years to conclude. If we stay in the EU, there would be no legal changes to the current arrangement. “No matter which outcome people favour, it is important that everyone places their vote on 23 June.†http://www.squareonelaw.com/announcements/eu-referendum-know-the-facts/

Welcome along! Congrats on your new purchase!

There you go: http://www.torqen.uk/armytrix/nissan/nissan-370z/3504-armytrix-nissan-370z-exhaust-system-niz37-cb.html :lol:

Welcome to the forum! Changed your exhaust yet?

"If we do choose Brexit, it will be in no small part because the leave campaign efficiently aggregated fear of immigration in its various forms and – much more importantly – persuaded a sufficiency of voters that getting out of the EU would fix the problem. Remain’s closing argument is going to be: we should stay because leaving would trigger what David Cameron, on Sunday’s Andrew Marr Show, called “a DIY recessionâ€. Hostility to foreigners versus fear of indigence: scarcely a feast of reason and flow of soul." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/10-days-from-terrible-mistake-europe-immigration-leave-campaign

Reply on the way, sorry for the delay!

Eh.