Neilp

I don't think this was supposed to be a discussion thread, best to keep it to a simple yes or no.

That was 40 years ago, I have no doubt that you could find all sorts of horrible stuff the government did then if you wanted to, not to mention that Labour, Conservative and even SNP were unrecognisable compared to what they are today. Making a decision as important as this based around what a load of dead guys decided nearly half a century back is ridiculous. And the game has moved on in those 40 years as well, everyone bangs on about Norway being amazing but its so heavily taxed no-one can afford to do anything and Im pretty sure its continued success has a lot to do with it being outside of the EU, something which I personally think would be suicide for new Scotland. And finally, the UK government that "made an arse of everything" have also turned @*!# around to become one of the fastest growing post recession economies worldwide. We saved our banks (unlike Iceland or Cyprus), we didnt have to introduce increased tax rates (like Ireland) and we arent facing mass unemployment (Spain) or bankruptcy (Greece). They were also voted for, at least in part, by the Scottish populace so I dont really get why they are suddenly the main reason for a change. What can UK offer Scotland to stay? Everything its got already - excellent global trade links, batting well above our size as a political and economic power, existing legal, welfare and judiciary systems, defence and police forces, a stable currency, all sorts. What are you going to gain? Potentially more localised political control (although it will still be the same democratic system i.e. at least 50% end up unhappy), potentially more tax income (although that could just as easily go the other way if the big boys start squeezing new Scotland) but a whole lot more risk that if the @*!# does hit the fan theres no UK, no EU and no nothing to act as a safety net. Neil - if Im honest, as a totall impartial bystander Ive found the "Yes" sympathisers a lot more aggressive, believe it or not most of England doesnt really give a toss as we arent anything to do with the result. On this thread I'm not seeing a lot of aggression from the Yes guys, I see a lot of passion because the Scottish people believe they are getting fed bullshit (and quite rightly so, as there's a lot of it flying around) Do the English realise the consequences on the land of the Oil revenues coming to Scotland? Quick Clip for those interested

You don't see me crying on here do you? I'm English . . and I don't give a toss!! Thats because your in the predominantly Scottish country of Canada

love how none of those screens are work related Chris

probs better taking them off the rims to be honest mate. You would get ok money for the tyres themselves. Wait till winter and sell the rims as winter wheels.

In this thread i'm seriously picking up on some very hostile & jealous attitudes. Are you guys worried about losing the oil that Scotland has?

Out of interest, what does the UK offer the Scottish people if we stay in the union? Can you guarantee that westminster won't make mistakes that can cause catastrophic issues for the UK? Can you guarantee that the oil won't run out? What else is on offer? As far as I can see, if the oil runs out, regardless of where the revenue is going, it will have massive complications for the full of the UK anyway? Can you guarantee that the government won't make an arse of it again?

lol great excuse!

I wouldn't just go quoting media mate. If you Actually paid attention to the debates and whats going on you will see that both of these have been absolutely shattered, as rumours. Well with some inside knowledge I know both to actually be true so not just quoting links buddy! Obviously I am not saying RBS will get up and go but the Scottish people will lose jobs. Whats true about lloyds moving HQ, all they have is a plaque at the mound and no staff. RBS has already stated they will not be moving jobs. Only the license.

Ok, for those of you that haven't read the McCrone report, heres a summary from wikipedia. This article is about the report on economic aspects of Scottish independence. For the agreement involving Scottish teachers' working conditions, see McCrone agreement. The McCrone report was a UK Government document which was written and researched at the Scottish Office (St. Andrews House in Edinburgh) on behalf of the British Government of the day (Conservative, led by Edward Heath). The eighteen-page report focused on the likely effects of North Sea oil revenue on the economic viability of an independent Scotland. Professor Gavin McCrone wrote the paper as advice to the UK Government. The report predicted that North sea oil revenue would give an independent Scotland a large tax surplus, on such a scale as to be "embarrassing", making the country "as rich as Switzerland." He also surmised that this surplus revenue would make the Scottish pound the hardest currency in Europe "with the exception of the Norwegian kronor". The document was completed in early 1974, just prior to the February '74 general election, which produced a 'hung parliament' with Harold Wilson as Prime Minister. Another general election was called for October '74, which gave the Labour party a slim majority in Westminster, whilst the SNP recorded 30% of the Scottish vote, their best ever result at that time. After discussions between St. Andrews House and the Cabinet Office in London, Prof. McCrone passed the report on to the new Labour government, on 23 April 1975, along with a covering letter. The covering letter is the source of the oft-quoted phrase about "taking the wind out of the SNP’s sails"; Prof. McCrone was here outlining what actions he believed would be necessary to prevent support for the SNP from growing further. The report was classified as 'secret' by civil servants at the time, and successive UK Governments kept it so, over fears that it would give a further boost to the SNP's policy of Scottish independence.[2] A year after Professor McCrone had written his report, civil servants in London (including McCrone himself) met to discuss its implications. They concluded that his findings had been accurate, and that the average income in Scotland would increase by up to 30% per head if the country became an independent state. They also concluded that Scotland's "economic problems would disappear", and it would become "the Kuwait of the Western world", though this was balanced somewhat by the opinion that Scotland could risk "disaster" if the oil price collapsed. The civil servants in London summed up by finding that there was "a good case for the continuation of the Union." The report came to light in 2005 when the SNP obtained several UK Government papers under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The full provisions of the Act came into force on 1 January 2005. UK oil production peaked in 1999 and had declined 67% by 2012, but petroleum still contributed £35bn to the UK balance of payments in 2011. The UK government took an estimated £6,530m in direct petroleum taxes in 2012-13 plus £6bn in income tax, national insurance and corporation tax from supply companies in 2011-12. As of 2012 around 45% of UK oil & gas employees are in Scotland. In his evidence to the Lords Committee on the Economic Implications of Scottish Independence in 2012, Professor McCrone stated that Scotland's GDP would increase by around 20% if North Sea oil were counted as part of it. In an interview for Holyrood Magazine on the 19th of May 2013, ex-Labour chancellor Dennis Healey (who served in the Cabinet at the time the McCrone Report was submitted) stated: "I think we did underplay the value of the oil to the country because of the threat of [scottish] nationalism... I think they [Westminster politicians] are concerned about Scotland taking the oil, I think they are worried stiff about it."

I wouldn't just go quoting media mate. If you Actually paid attention to the debates and whats going on you will see that both of these have been absolutely shattered, as rumours. Well with some inside knowledge I know both to actually be true so not just quoting links buddy! Obviously I am not saying RBS will get up and go but the Scottish people will lose jobs. What jobs will be lost out of interest?

O2- 24 months 49.99 for the phone upfront, £53 a month unlimited calls and texts, 20gb data. £1321.99 £48*24months+£209.99upfront = £1361.99 soz I was pricing 64gb, don't hurt me

Has any Englishman read the McCrone report?

O2- 24 months 49.99 for the phone upfront, £53 a month unlimited calls and texts, 20gb data. £1321.99

thats why i don't mind it getting moved to london as the Bank of england will have to bail them out when it goes tits up again lol

In all honesty I'm not sure what I'm voting now lol! I've been doing lots of reading and studying of this over the past few days now and I'm accumulating a list of pro's & con's. At the moment the pro's are outweighing the cons, however these are based on items like the mccrone report etc. I need read further into this and will make my decision on the 18th If we get independence theres a risk I will lose my job as my company is based down south Ah a tricky one. I personally think all these places Saying they will move is rubbish as I'm sure you have a good job but your company is making silly silly money. But I can't say that 100%. That report to me was a shocker. I was angry when I first found out about it. I do think the yes vote is what you want in your heart. Your decision to make though as it's your future. Its not that my company would move, they would just decide to subbie all the work out because they can't be bothered dealing with different tax laws etc. My company is one of the biggest family owned firms in the world at the moment as far as i'm aware.

the other issue is all the propaganda with the banks moving which has been shown to be bullshit, ie lloyds moving to london..... This is lloyds HQ in London

In all honesty I'm not sure what I'm voting now lol! I've been doing lots of reading and studying of this over the past few days now and I'm accumulating a list of pro's & con's. At the moment the pro's are outweighing the cons, however these are based on items like the mccrone report etc. I need read further into this and will make my decision on the 18th If we get independence theres a risk I will lose my job as my company is based down south

The amps knackered. There is a fix on here somewhere

no wonder the economy is fecked lol! Nothing to do with Scottish independence, just all the people skiving at work on forums

I've still got the 4s also, I'm sure its aluminium and stainless matey

this car looks very familiar to me

yikes!!

lol it is boy racer! I had one for about a year. Stop trying to justify yourself as not being one of us! Just accept it, tinted windows and a chav exhaust